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Post by Kentflash_05 on Mar 3, 2019 18:48:01 GMT
More interesting Saban mythology : As an SEC head coach (17 seasons) * 49 of his 201 regular season games have been scheduled at home vs FCS/G5 opponents........24.3% . Almost 1/4 of all Nick's scheduled football games have been vs home rent-a-wins. I'll guarantee you that Saban hypers ( media and fans) that believe in the great GOATÂ myth have absolutely no clue about this factoid. His overall record vs FCS/G5 is 47-3 .940 (includes Sugar Bowl loss to MWC Utah) I think he's done coaching, but I do wonder what Meyer could have done at Ohio State with another 10 year....or for that matter another 5. There was a common "myth" that Urban was afraid of Saban and that's why he left the SEC the first time. I don't buy that logic at all as Urban actually went 2-2 vs Nick and won the only out of conference matchup...I tend to think the growing cyst inaide his brain effectively shortened his career at both Ohio State and Florida
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Post by bluehen on Mar 4, 2019 0:36:43 GMT
Meyer was clearly more difficult to beat than Saban with significantly fewer scheduled home lower division rent-a-wins.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 4, 2019 19:23:35 GMT
Knute lost 11.9 % of the time he took the field. Nick lost 21.5% of the time he took the field. Does it kill you to accept the fact that Knute was almost twice as difficult to defeat as Nick ? (Kehres was 3X more difficult to defeat than your GOAT) actually, your grammar and math are wrong Hen.
Knute's TEAMS lost only 9.8% of the time they took the field. They WON 86.1% of the times his teams took the field. "Win %", as defined in records, gives 1/2 credit for ties.
Knute coached ONLY at Notre Dame. Coached for 13 years... a total of 122 games.
At Alabama, Saban has now coached 12 years, a total of 167 games.... and, his teams WON 87.4% of the times they took the field. A HIGHER % than beloved Knute.
During that same time, Nick won FIVE National Titles, including 2 Back to Back (2011-12).
Three of those National Titles came from winning a post-season tournament. That's something Knute NEVER had to do. In fact, Rockne only coached ONE Bowl game, ever.
Saban's greatness isn't defined by win %, or "rent-a-win" games.... it's defined by winning BIG GAMES, at the end of his seasons. By, being the BEST in the country. No one ever has won more Titles.
And, oh.... by the way, Saban won a title at a DIFFERENT school too. Pretty darn amazing, no matter what the haters say.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 4, 2019 19:34:32 GMT
Hey Hero? Are Bama fans satisfied with a coach who wins at a HIGHER PERCENTAGE than Knute Rockne?
You might want to look into making a T-Shirt about this... you know, to inform the masses?
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 0:19:51 GMT
Knute lost 11.9 % of the time he took the field. Nick lost 21.5% of the time he took the field. Does it kill you to accept the fact that Knute was almost twice as difficult to defeat as Nick ? (Kehres was 3X more difficult to defeat than your GOAT) actually, your grammar and math are wrong Hen.
Knute's TEAMS lost only 9.8% of the time they took the field. They WON 86.1% of the times his teams took the field. "Win %", as defined in records, gives 1/2 credit for ties.
Knute coached ONLY at Notre Dame. Coached for 13 years... a total of 122 games.
At Alabama, Saban has now coached 12 years, a total of 167 games.... and, his teams WON 87.4% of the times they took the field. A HIGHER % than beloved Knute.
During that same time, Nick won FIVE National Titles, including 2 Back to Back (2011-12).
Three of those National Titles came from winning a post-season tournament. That's something Knute NEVER had to do. In fact, Rockne only coached ONE Bowl game, ever.
Saban's greatness isn't defined by win %, or "rent-a-win" games.... it's defined by winning BIG GAMES, at the end of his seasons. By, being the BEST in the country. No one ever has won more Titles.
And, oh.... by the way, Saban won a title at a DIFFERENT school too. Pretty darn amazing, no matter what the haters say.
Good point about ties . I assume you know why Rockne had a relatively short career......killed in a plane crash. Hope you don't hold that against him in the comparison
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 0:37:42 GMT
IMO, there should be zero discussion of mythical national titles. Neither Knute or Nick ever won a real national . They are both tied with the great Harry Schwartz in that regard.
Don't forget that 1/4 of Nick's wins as an SEC HC ( LSU & BAMA ) have come against custom scheduled home rent-a-wins ( actually 24.8 % )
Speaking of "big games" at the end of the season, Nick's career post season record is good but not dominant (14-10)...and Bevo..the SABANOLOGY factoid of the week:
Playing in the soft SEC had padded Nick's numbers;
As an FBS coach Saban is .816 for his coaching career vs SEC competition. Coach Saban is .632 for his career vs other 'P5' leagues. Can you see that winning outside of the SEC has been significantly more difficult for Nick ?
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Post by Bevo on Mar 5, 2019 1:24:39 GMT
I assume you know why Rockne had a relatively short career......killed in a plane crash. Hope you don't hold that against him in the comparison Yes... I know why Knute's career was short. I don't hold it against him, but.... it does limit his ability to be considered the GOAT. GOAT is about accomplishments. Knute didn't have time to accumulate as many as others. My point has always been: It's not fair to compare win% of a coach who only coached at ONE school, and a powerhouse school, with that of coaches like Bear and Saban who coached at FOUR different schools, and at places that NEVER had a winning tradition. By the quirk of fate, Saban has been at ONE SCHOOL, Bama, for almost the same length of time as Knute was at ND. 12 vs 13 years... In very similar situations, Saban has coached MORE games, and WON a HIGHER % than Knute. If Knute had coached at Toledo, Michigan State and LSU, I suspect his win% would be very similar to Nick's.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 5, 2019 1:33:51 GMT
IMO, there should be zero discussion of mythical national titles. Of course you do.... it doesn't help your argument. Whether you like it or not, College Football has had a method of determining the "National Champion" for a very long time. All teams/coaches know the rules, and what they need to try to do. Most can't manage it. Saban has succeeded at it as much as any coach has. Don't forget that 1/4 of Nick's wins as an SEC HC ( LSU & BAMA ) have come against custom scheduled home rent-a-wins ( actually 24.8 % ) You think "rent-a-wins" are solely a modern invention? Notre Dame had some cupcakes on their schedule. Even back then, there was great diversity in skill levels between teams. Speaking of "big games" at the end of the season, Nick's career post season record is good but not dominant (14-10) His bowl record is 11-5 while at Bama. That's pretty damned dominant. Playing in the soft SEC had padded Nick's numbers; As an FBS coach Saban is .816 for his coaching career vs SEC competition. Coach Saban is .632 for his career vs other 'P5' leagues. Can you see that winning outside of the SEC has been significantly more difficult for Nick ?
Because you're a 'hater', you draw the wrong conclusion. What I see is: Nick coaches even better against teams he faces more regularly. Plus, a much higher % of non-SEC games are played against "top teams" from other conferences... either in Bowl games, or high-profile OOC games. Therefore, it's not surprising that he would have a higher % playing against conference teams.
I suspect, nearly EVERY coach has similar kind of stat in that kind of measure.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 1:39:42 GMT
It's kind useless to speculate how any HC would have done at any other school and in any other era. Why don't you compare Nick's first 13 years as a CF HC with Rockne's first 13 years ? That would seem to be fair. Anything after that would be impossible to speculate since Rockne wasn't allotted any more time.
Knute Rockne's first 13 years ) 105-12-5 (.881) Nick Saban's first 13 years ) 103-49 -1 (.676)
You just can't compare anything beyond that because there was no more Rockne to compare to. Rockne remains the 2nd most difficult HC to beat in CF history. Nick remains outside the top 50.
We keep going around with career value vs peak value. I will always believe that 100% will tell you more than some select smaller percentage of anything. You prefer the custom select smaller sample. That's fine. Hey Bevo... I found my recorded 'vocal'. What do you think ?
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Post by Bevo on Mar 5, 2019 1:46:02 GMT
Why don't you compare Nick's first 12 years as a CF HC with Rockne's first 12 years ? It's not fair at all. That's my point. They had different starts to their careers. Knute started at one of, if not THE premier program in the country. Nick had to fight his way up from nothing.
Did you know that Nick coached, either HC or Assistant, at FOURTEEN different schools?? Including three NFL teams. He had to EARN his start... at Toledo. Then, his talent propelled him forward.
I'm happy to look at ALL the record... but, that means looking at MORE than just "win %". That's a small, relatively ignored stat.... people ignore it for just the problem shown here: It's simply not a fair way to compare coaches that have such different shapes to their careers.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 1:52:08 GMT
Who was it that said " You play the game to win " ? Only one HC to ever take the sideline was better than Rockne at winning....and it sure wasn't Nick.
..you may not believe this but I don't hate Saban. The myth is just silly.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 5, 2019 1:59:05 GMT
Who was it that said " You play the game to win " ? Only one HC to ever take the sideline was better than Rockne at winning....and it sure wasn't Nick.
..you may not believe this but I don't hate Saban. The myth is just silly.
It takes more than JUST good coaching to win. Coaching at Kentucky vs Coaching at Notre Dame would be like the difference between riding Mr. Ed or Secretariat in a horse race. What myth is silly? That Saban is one of, if not THE greatest coach in CF history? Or, that you are a 'Saban-hater'?
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 2:00:46 GMT
Now wait a minute . "one of the greatest in CF history " is reasonable. He sure is. GOAT not even close.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 5, 2019 2:05:49 GMT
Now wait a minute . "one of the greatest in CF history is reasonable " He sure is. GOAT not even close. "one of" is a 'no-brainer'... GOAT is arguable... he's certainly one of the MOST accomplished. He's approaching Tom Brady levels in this discussion. As he just keeps on winning, there get to be fewer and fewer people that can argue against it, with ANY credibility. As I said earlier, because they are still tied in Titles, I keep Nick & Bear tied. One could argue that Nick's titles were harder to win... since he actually had to play post-season games to win ALL of them... multiple games for most. But, Bear had a longer career, and won at schools that truly were AWFUL... before, and after Bear was there. That means a lot to me.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 5, 2019 2:15:03 GMT
Is Denny McClain the greatest pitcher in MLB history ? In 68-69 seasons he was 55-15 with a .238 era and 461 strikeouts....unbeatable. In reality, McClain is not even top 50 all time. There was this little problem of 'the rest of his career'. Beware Bevo of custom selecting 'peak years' to determine sports GOATS.
Bear Bryant ? Now there's a legend partially founded in reality and partially in mythology. 8 consecutive bowl games without a 'W' is not a GOAT accolade. 0-5-1 vs Texas and ND is also not quite GOAT performance.
Bob Neyland was the SEC's 2nd greatest HC, Not Bear. Common knowledge that Bryant was a program builder for sure.
Paul Bryant - "People think I'm the greatest damn coach in the world but Neyland taught me everything I Know "
-" Everyone thought that Neyland had a jinx on us. It was no jinx. He was a better coach..."
Bryant was 0-7 vs Neyland while at UK and 60-18-4 vs everybody else.
Study up on Neyland sometime, Bevo. He was amazing and perhaps the single most cerebral HC in SEC history
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