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Post by bluehen on Mar 8, 2023 15:02:35 GMT
"fact"....isn't that something that is supported by proof ? When the US Census indicates that the trump worshiping states are, generally, the least educated per capita, well, what's the proof that that data is rigged ?
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Post by tigercpa on Mar 8, 2023 18:52:50 GMT
"fact"....isn't that something that is supported by proof ? When the US Census indicates that the trump worshiping states are, generally, the least educated per capita, well, what's the proof that that data is rigged ? No, I stated that many, NOT ALL, have a directional bias. The original criteria was IQ. Further, looking at these data points at the state level is probably ineffective (it's painting with too broad of a brush). For example, GA is a red state, but I'll guarantee the folks in Fulton County are not. Additionally VA is a red state - excluding NOVA and a few zip codes in Richmond and the tidewater area (that Virginia speed zone / recruiting hotbed). NOVA is blue, ROVA (rest of VA) is red. I believe further stratification of the data is needed, i.e., county or zip code level data for a far more accurate view.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 8, 2023 20:36:17 GMT
Of course there is regional fluctuation in intelligence and educational levels within every single state. The electoral college, however, dictates one sum voting total from each state, therefore, 'average levels of relative dumbth and relative smarts is critical and 'on average' some are clearly dumber and less informed than others.......again 'on average'
That's one of the problems with the Electoral college voting system, imo.
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Post by tigercpa on Mar 8, 2023 21:56:56 GMT
Of course there is regional fluctuation in intelligence and educational levels within every single state. The electoral college, however, dictates one sum voting total from each state, therefore, 'average levels of relative dumbth and relative smarts is critical and 'on average' some are clearly dumber and less informed than others.......again 'on average' That's one of the problems with the Electoral college voting system, imo. I take exception to the phrase "dumber and less informed". I know farmers with no formal education and many of them are "smarter" than people I know with a Masters Degree. How do we measure that?
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Post by tigercpa on Mar 8, 2023 22:26:54 GMT
"fact"....isn't that something that is supported by proof ? When the US Census indicates that the trump worshiping states are, generally, the least educated per capita, well, what's the proof that that data is rigged ? It's not just Trump. Red states have voted red for some time, so Trump is not the variable here,as the Forbes article I shared concludes. It's the red states are "richer" and therefore tend to vote more conservative.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 9, 2023 4:27:20 GMT
I totally agree and always have..........lack of education does not always equal intelligence deficits. However citing an individual farmer isn't pertinent to the points I'm trying to make, cpa, simply because my posts and points are 'in general' 'on average' 'common patterns' .....macro stuff, not micro examples. Anyway, interesting discussion and thanks for being polite.
Hopefully my final thoughts on all this, cpa, and of course this is admittedly fantasy land idealism But:
Voters determine the direction of our nation and all voters and votes count the same......no good and not sustainable, imo, for an effective democracy. There should be some kind of voting license with minimum standards of intelligence and awareness (education)...maybe renewed every 5 years or so via some kind of testing or something. Such a system could cull out complete idiots and empower relatively informed and thinking voters to determine this nation's direction. A blatant uninformed idiot should never cancel out your vote, cpa, and I don't care if these blatant culled out idiots and licensed ,astute voters are Black, White, Red, Brown or Striped, rich or poor, politically leaning blue, red or purple, Rural or Urban, from Frog Snot, Alabama or Cambridge , Mass. Dumbth is found everywhere and thinking people are found everywhere. If politicians (and future public servants) only had to appease the 'qualified / licensed' voters we can get back on track and unite much better. There would be little need for lying, deception, manipulation, broadcast journalism fraud etc., because that stuff wouldn't work as well on the 'thinking' voters. And guaranteed- we would have vastly improved candidates in intelligence, morality, and patriotism.
over and out
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Post by tigercpa on Mar 9, 2023 14:26:38 GMT
I totally agree and always have..........lack of education does not always equal intelligence deficits. However citing an individual farmer isn't pertinent to the points I'm trying to make, cpa, simply because my posts and points are 'in general' 'on average' 'common patterns' .....macro stuff, not micro examples. Anyway, interesting discussion and thanks for being polite. Hopefully my final thoughts on all this, cpa, and of course this is admittedly fantasy land idealism But: Voters determine the direction of our nation and all voters and votes count the same......no good and not sustainable, imo, for an effective democracy. There should be some kind of voting license with minimum standards of intelligence and awareness (education)...maybe renewed every 5 years or so via some kind of testing or something. Such a system could cull out complete idiots and empower relatively informed and thinking voters to determine this nation's direction. A blatant uninformed idiot should never cancel out your vote, cpa, and I don't care if these blatant culled out idiots and licensed ,astute voters are Black, White, Red, Brown or Striped, rich or poor, politically leaning blue, red or purple, Rural or Urban, from Frog Snot, Alabama or Cambridge , Mass. Dumbth is found everywhere and thinking people are found everywhere. If politicians (and future public servants) only had to appease the 'qualified / licensed' voters we can get back on track and unite much better. There would be little need for lying, deception, manipulation, broadcast journalism fraud etc., because that stuff wouldn't work as well on the 'thinking' voters. And guaranteed- we would have vastly improved candidates in intelligence, morality, and patriotism. over and out Like I've said before, we basically want the same things. I agree with you on much of this...did you see recent report on Baltimore schools? out of 23 high schools - 0 (ZERO) kids are proficient in math. NONE. We are not reaching our potential. I'm just not sure how we implement it in today's environment without being called racist and bigot and every other name out there.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 9, 2023 16:43:54 GMT
The electoral college, however, dictates one sum voting total from each state,That's one of the problems with the Electoral college voting system, imo. In an argument about preventing people from voting due to "dumbth", one should be extra careful about their facts. What you stated above is NOT TRUE. State Law determines how electoral college votes will be cast. In at least two states, Maine and Nebraska, the votes are cast proportionately to the election results in congressional districts in their states. Several more states are looking at doing this.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 9, 2023 16:51:51 GMT
There should be some kind of voting license with minimum standards of intelligence and awareness (education)...maybe renewed every 5 years or so via some kind of testing or something. If you REALLY believe this, you should never be voting for Biden, or ANY Democrat. They are the ones blocking ANY cleanup of voting registration. And, they are the ones who want to auto-register EVERYONE, and send them all mail-in ballots directly... ie, without having to even ask for one. What could possibly go wrong with that system? For the record, I agree with you. I think anyone who receives more money from the government than they pay in taxes should not vote the following year. But, that is likely too complex for our stupid government to figure out. I'd settle for just having people go vote, IN PERSON, with some kind of photo ID proving who they are. You know, like we've done for ages. I'd even be OK with allowing an entire week for people to get their voting done. Or, a national/state holiday on election day. But, people should HAVE to register ahead of the election, show up in person, and prove who they are. That doesn't seem to be too much to ask. While we're at it, let's do away with gerrymandering. I think all congressional districts should be as geometrically similar are practical.
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Post by aufan on Mar 10, 2023 0:26:06 GMT
I totally agree and always have..........lack of education does not always equal intelligence deficits. However citing an individual farmer isn't pertinent to the points I'm trying to make, cpa, simply because my posts and points are 'in general' 'on average' 'common patterns' .....macro stuff, not micro examples. Anyway, interesting discussion and thanks for being polite. Hopefully my final thoughts on all this, cpa, and of course this is admittedly fantasy land idealism But: Voters determine the direction of our nation and all voters and votes count the same......no good and not sustainable, imo, for an effective democracy. There should be some kind of voting license with minimum standards of intelligence and awareness (education)...maybe renewed every 5 years or so via some kind of testing or something. Such a system could cull out complete idiots and empower relatively informed and thinking voters to determine this nation's direction. A blatant uninformed idiot should never cancel out your vote, cpa, and I don't care if these blatant culled out idiots and licensed ,astute voters are Black, White, Red, Brown or Striped, rich or poor, politically leaning blue, red or purple, Rural or Urban, from Frog Snot, Alabama or Cambridge , Mass. Dumbth is found everywhere and thinking people are found everywhere. If politicians (and future public servants) only had to appease the 'qualified / licensed' voters we can get back on track and unite much better. There would be little need for lying, deception, manipulation, broadcast journalism fraud etc., because that stuff wouldn't work as well on the 'thinking' voters. And guaranteed- we would have vastly improved candidates in intelligence, morality, and patriotism. over and out What other rights should be based on socio-economic status besides voting? In my opinion this would be taking a gigantic step backward. It is not like only dumb or uneducated people can be manipulated. Smart and educated people are manipulated every day, just look at the people who post Twitter links on this forum.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 10, 2023 2:12:55 GMT
Not socio-economic standards at all , Aufam. Read the 5th line down..... "I don't care......."
No other rights threatened...just need a license to vote
modified democracy
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Post by aufan on Mar 10, 2023 2:50:22 GMT
Not socio-economic standards at all , Aufam. Read the 5th line down..... "I don't care......." No other rights threatened...just need a license to vote modified democracy You say licensing to vote should be based on some sort of test of education level. But often times education level is tied to socioeconomic status. And my point about other rights is not that I think you suggest they should be taken away. But the fact that you think there should be reason to take rights away based on education level is very scary. If we eliminated someone’s right to vote based on education, couldn’t we justify other rights being taken away too? Why should an uneducated idiot have the right to free speech? They might say some dumb shit!
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Post by bluehen on Mar 10, 2023 14:25:07 GMT
...but idiots saying " dumb shit" does not impact the future and direction of our nation. Go free speech. Now, gullible idiots 'voting' dumb shit does.
The whole point of my rant is that an individual who is barely literate, who couldn't name the 3 branches of the US govt., who couldn't find N. Korea or Ukraine on a globe, couldn't name 10 US presidents, etc., etc. have a role in determining the future and direction of the nation. Should that person's vote cancel your vote out ? If there is anything at all in my rant about a voting license based on some reasonable minimum standards that even has a slight hint of merit, why don't you take it, Aufan, tweak it and make it better. You're concerned about this country, like I am, but might articulate it better.
Also, other than minimum awareness and intelligence standards this mythical voting license would require a crime free history, a tax paying history and maybe some other good responsible citizenship elements.
It's a tough love modified democracy for good. Better quality voters will foster better quality leaders.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 10, 2023 15:53:50 GMT
.an individual who is barely literate, who couldn't name the 3 branches of the US govt., who couldn't find N. Korea or Ukraine on a globe, couldn't name 10 US presidents, etc., etc. have a role in determining the future and direction of the nation. . Most of those kinds of people will self-select to not voting, if you just make them put forth the minimal effort required to register and vote in person. They don't care enough to do it. But, they'll glad accept $10 to give someone their pre-mailed ballot.
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Post by aufan on Mar 10, 2023 16:10:35 GMT
...but idiots saying " dumb shit" does not impact the future and direction of our nation. Go free speech. Now, gullible idiots 'voting' dumb shit does. The whole point of my rant is that an individual who is barely literate, who couldn't name the 3 branches of the US govt., who couldn't find N. Korea or Ukraine on a globe, couldn't name 10 US presidents, etc., etc. have a role in determining the future and direction of the nation. Should that person's vote cancel your vote out ? If there is anything at all in my rant about a voting license based on some reasonable minimum standards that even has a slight hint of merit, why don't you take it, Aufan, tweak it and make it better. You're concerned about this country, like I am, but might articulate it better. Also, other than minimum awareness and intelligence standards this mythical voting license would require a crime free history, a tax paying history and maybe some other good responsible citizenship elements. It's a tough love modified democracy for good. Better quality voters will foster better quality leaders. Absolutely yes, his vote should cancel my vote out. My vote might be to reduce spending on public education, creating more people who are uneducated because it benefits me, personally. I hope he can cancel my vote out. Maybe he is not smart enough to locate Ukraine on a globe, but maybe he is smart enough to vote for someone who can make the city, state or country better, so we educate more people properly. So more people aren’t grown adults without a basic education. Arbitrarily taking away the right to vote… that is such a fundamentally bad idea that I will never agree with.
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