|
Post by bluehen on Mar 10, 2023 17:22:54 GMT
Ok, good points Aufan and Bevo. I will still continue to believe that mass dumbth and ignorance , allowed to be so easily manipulated, is not healthy for the USA.
|
|
|
Post by bluehen on Mar 10, 2023 17:25:36 GMT
Ok, good points Aufan and Bevo. I will still continue to believe that mass dumbth and ignorance , allowed to be so easily manipulated, is not healthy for the USA.
|
|
|
Post by aufan on Mar 10, 2023 17:54:46 GMT
Ok, good points Aufan and Bevo. I will still continue to believe that mass dumbth and ignorance , allowed to be so easily manipulated, is not healthy for the USA. On this point I agree. Mass dumbth is not healthy. Where I disagree is your solution. A person born in the USA has zero autonomy on how smart they are, and limited autonomy on their educational opportunity until they are 18. Punishing those people because of where and to whom they were born is not the way to improve the situation.
|
|
|
Post by bluehen on Mar 10, 2023 23:31:53 GMT
What 'IS' the solution for stopping those that manipulate, and in these times, mobilize mass dumbth ?
The voting license idea might not be perfectly fair to all but maybe a 'tough love' type solution for the overall good. BTW, my plan would include a 25-85 voting age range which might cull out some immaturity and senility and give individuals born into desolate conditions more time to attain the minimum standards.
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 11, 2023 3:57:52 GMT
...but idiots saying " dumb shit" does not impact the future and direction of our nation. Go free speech. Now, gullible idiots 'voting' dumb shit does. The whole point of my rant is that an individual who is barely literate, who couldn't name the 3 branches of the US govt., who couldn't find N. Korea or Ukraine on a globe, couldn't name 10 US presidents, etc., etc. have a role in determining the future and direction of the nation. Should that person's vote cancel your vote out ? If there is anything at all in my rant about a voting license based on some reasonable minimum standards that even has a slight hint of merit, why don't you take it, Aufan, tweak it and make it better. You're concerned about this country, like I am, but might articulate it better. Also, other than minimum awareness and intelligence standards this mythical voting license would require a crime free history, a tax paying history and maybe some other good responsible citizenship elements. It's a tough love modified democracy for good. Better quality voters will foster better quality leaders. Absolutely yes, his vote should cancel my vote out. I actually agree with you on this point. I'm not so worried about REAL people casting REAL votes. I trust the 'wisdom of the masses'. I'm more worried about real people giving, or selling their votes to others to cast for them. I think that happened, a LOT in 2020 and 2022. I do think a reasonable case could be made for "net beneficiaries" not being allowed to vote for MORE benefits. That doesn't discriminate against any individual. People will naturally move in and out of the restricted group from year to year. It just makes fiduciary sense. It's the protection against the great fear of Democracies: That the plebs will vote Bread and Circuses for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by aufan on Mar 11, 2023 4:16:00 GMT
What 'IS' the solution for stopping those that manipulate, and in these times, mobilize mass dumbth ?
The voting license idea might not be perfectly fair to all but maybe a 'tough love' type solution for the overall good. BTW, my plan would include a 25-85 voting age range which might cull out some immaturity and senility and give individuals born into desolate conditions more time to attain the minimum standards.
Easy. At the national level, eliminate the electoral college. The part that has lost 7 out of the last 8 popular votes is also the party that appeals to and mobilizes mass dumbths. They might have to actually pull to the center, appeal to more people, and maybe admit that their lie that they are "fiscal conservatives" isn't working anymore.
A more complicated solution is to expand the Senate, so it is more representative of the people.
At the state and, eliminate gerrymandering by standardizing how districts are drawn.
These are solutions to help make democracy more representative, not less. We have a big problem when the politicians are able to decide who they represent, instead of the people deciding who represents them. And that is exactly what the electoral college and gerrymandering do.
|
|
|
Post by aufan on Mar 11, 2023 4:17:16 GMT
Absolutely yes, his vote should cancel my vote out. I actually agree with you on this point. I'm not so worried about REAL people casting REAL votes. I trust the 'wisdom of the masses'. I'm more worried about real people giving, or selling their votes to others to cast for them. I think that happened, a LOT in 2020 and 2022. I do think a reasonable case could be made for "net beneficiaries" not being allowed to vote for MORE benefits. That doesn't discriminate against any individual. People will naturally move in and out of the restricted group from year to year. It just makes fiduciary sense. It's the protection against the great fear of Democracies: That the plebs will vote Bread and Circuses for themselves. Ignoring your unfounded fears, I would gladly accept that "net beneficiaries" lose their votes... if it also applied to states and their senate/house votes. That would solve a LOT of problems!
|
|
|
Post by bluehen on Mar 11, 2023 15:53:12 GMT
Hey fellers could you make an exception for disabled combat veterans who are net beneficiaries by no choice of there own ?
|
|
|
Post by aufan on Mar 11, 2023 16:40:27 GMT
Hey fellers could you make an exception for disabled combat veterans who are net beneficiaries by no choice of there own ? To be fair nobody chooses to be a net beneficiary. I don’t agree that net beneficiaries should lose their rights, but I do wonder if Bevo thinks this should apply to states as well.
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 12, 2023 0:59:45 GMT
I actually agree with you on this point. I'm not so worried about REAL people casting REAL votes. I trust the 'wisdom of the masses'. I'm more worried about real people giving, or selling their votes to others to cast for them. I think that happened, a LOT in 2020 and 2022. I do think a reasonable case could be made for "net beneficiaries" not being allowed to vote for MORE benefits. That doesn't discriminate against any individual. People will naturally move in and out of the restricted group from year to year. It just makes fiduciary sense. It's the protection against the great fear of Democracies: That the plebs will vote Bread and Circuses for themselves. Ignoring your unfounded fears, when it comes to politics, if there IS A WAY to cheat, someone IS cheating. There is no judging whether fears are "reasonable" or "unfounded". There is only agreement on procedures that ensure the best integrity possible. Having MILLIONS of valid, unfilled ballots floating around a State doesn't meet the minimum requirement for security. The burden isn't on me to prove that is DOES happen, it's on you to prove that it can't.
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 12, 2023 1:03:54 GMT
Hey fellers could you make an exception for disabled combat veterans who are net beneficiaries by no choice of there own ? I do wonder if Bevo thinks this should apply to states as well. There's no reason to apply it to States if it's already applied to the voters. If people who are actually PAYING choose to give more resources to areas where many people aren't paying, I'd be fine with that. In fact, I'd expect that to be the case. Less advantaged people likely need more help. But, as I said... I'd be happy if we just knew that the people casting ballots, truly ARE the people who are supposed to be doing it. In the Congress we have certainty that the voters are who they say they are.
|
|
|
Post by bluehen on Mar 12, 2023 14:19:37 GMT
Meanwhile, Tucker hopes to convince his mass ....... (take your choice ) that 140 law officers were injured by 'tourists'.
James Howell's 'Big Ten Expansion' thread might as well cover everything
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 12, 2023 18:48:53 GMT
Meanwhile, Tucker hopes to convince his mass ....... (take your choice ) that 140 law officers were injured by 'tourists'.
James Howell's 'Big Ten Expansion' thread might as well cover everything Injured? The once I saw acting like tour guides didn’t look injured.
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 12, 2023 18:51:10 GMT
Hey fellers could you make an exception for disabled combat veterans who are net beneficiaries by no choice of there own ? To be fair nobody chooses to be a net beneficiary Lol. That’s a pretty ignorant statement. There are LOTS of people who love being beneficiaries. They go to extraordinary lengths to make SURE they maintain that status.
|
|
|
Post by aufan on Mar 12, 2023 22:02:32 GMT
To be fair nobody chooses to be a net beneficiary Lol. That’s a pretty ignorant statement. There are LOTS of people who love being beneficiaries. They go to extraordinary lengths to make SURE they maintain that status. But nobody really chooses to be a net beneficiary. As long as we have a social safety net, there will be people that receive more than they are taxed. I don’t see a reason to also dehumanize those people. We do agree that they are still people, hopefully. The campaign to demonize poor people as if they are the ones abusing their power, has clearly been very effective. Of the groups skirting taxes, a poor person getting food stamps is at the bottom of my list of concerns or needs for reform.
|
|