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Post by bluehen on Mar 20, 2023 13:52:35 GMT
Hen, what do you think about raising the voting age to 25?
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Post by bluehen on Mar 20, 2023 13:54:25 GMT
I'm 10000% for that !
Should there be a maximum age limit ?
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Post by aufan on Mar 21, 2023 15:45:23 GMT
I agree. I haven't seen much of it in my life, from either Party. But it's really no laughing matter. I think the lack of it is an existential threat to our country. Removing votes from people who are being given the GIFTS empowers the votes of the people being taxed. I think that's a step in the right direction. You may think that poor people voting for benefits is the death to democracy. Not only do I think that is wrong, but I'd argue that is something you've been brainwashed into thinking by those who are an actual existential threat to our country. This brainwashing is quite impressive, because not only have they pitched the argument that poor people will be the death of democracy, they've convinced you of this in-spite of the Bible preaching the exact opposite. I call it the Republican denomination of Christianity. You want to oppress those the Bible says to not oppress, and why exactly?
The actual threat to democracy are things like Citizen's United decision, that money = speech. Capitalism allows for unfettered accumulation of money, and thus of speech and influence. And it is no wonder that they have used their influence to convince you that they are not the problem. But... that poor people are? Wealth inequality has grown to absolutely stupid levels, yet someone getting government funding to buy bread is the problem? Evil at work in my opinion.
The biggest threat to democracy is this model of wealth accumulation. Even worse is that they've convinced regular Joe's that this is not only a good thing, that if you work hard you will too become a millionaire. That anyone who is poor is lazy. And that the biggest threat to the average Joe becoming a hard working millionaire is that the poor person is going to steal their lunch. The solution? Just let the richest pay their fair share in taxes. This is not socialism or communism, but the CAPITALIST model that allowed the middle class to absolutely thrive last century. The wealthiest people are absolutely benefiting from the machine that is America. They should pay more into taxes to help keep that machine running, not less.
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Post by aufan on Mar 21, 2023 16:00:24 GMT
And I'm realizing that graph goes through 2018. The wealth at the top further accumulated in the most recent years especially during COVID.
I would suspect the problem is even worse now than it was in 2018. Yet the problem is the single mom getting money to feed her children. Oh the brainwashing.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 21, 2023 18:08:32 GMT
Just let the richest pay their fair share in taxes taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/Hmnnn... by your data, 0.01% of the population are paying 5% of the total tax? Sounds to me like they are paying a BIT more than average. In the link I provided, you can see that the Top 1% are paying 22.2% of the total taxes and the % has been INCREASING. The Bottom 50% pay only 2.3% of the total, and that number is going down. Good Lord man, what exactly is the "Fair Share" the rich are supposed to pay? I'd say it's YOU that have been brainwashed. Brainwashed to hate the rich and successful. I'm not talking about oppressing anyone. I'll continue to donate my own money and time to help the poor. And, I'm sure the government will continue to use some of my money to do the same, after taking their large cut from it. I just think it's harder to get a voter to support tax cuts and spending decreases when they don't pay tax and in fact receive government payments. When a majority can vote MORE for themselves, without having more taken from them, what's to stop them? How do we EVER stop the cancerous growth of government? We're very close to the point of having such a majority, now. I don't really understand why you are so incensed at the mere suggestion of limiting voting to net payers. It's never going to happen. As I've said repeatedly, I'd be happy to just limit voting to people who have the interest to physically go and do it, with necessary exceptions.
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Post by aufan on Mar 21, 2023 20:03:58 GMT
By that graph, approximately 5% of the total taxes and 10% of the total wealth.
That ratio is at least flipped from what it should be. And that graph is horribly out of date base on the growth in wealth during the last few years.
The wealthiest are the biggest net benefactors of the United States being the way it is, and should shoulder a much bigger burden of supporting it.
I’ll admit I might be brainwashed, but compare the two thought processes:
I’m asking for people who take joy rides to outer space to be taxed more.
You are asking to strip rights away from people because they can’t afford basic necessities for life.
My brainwashing I can gladly live with. Your brainwashing should at least cause severe bouts of cognitive dissonance on Sunday mornings.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 21, 2023 20:50:17 GMT
By that graph, approximately 5% of the total taxes and 10% of the total wealth. That ratio is at least flipped from what it should be. And that graph is horribly out of date base on the growth in wealth during the last few years. The wealthiest are the biggest net benefactors of the United States being the way it is, and should shoulder a much bigger burden of supporting it. I’ll admit I might be brainwashed, but compare the two thought processes: I’m asking for people who take joy rides to outer space to be taxed more. You are asking to strip rights away from people because they can’t afford basic necessities for life. My brainwashing I can gladly live with. Your brainwashing should at least cause severe bouts of cognitive dissonance on Sunday mornings. Elon paid more tax for the past two years than any human in history. And yet, for you? It’s not enough. It’ll never be enough for people consumed with envy. That’s one of the “Big Ten” commandments. Voting is a privilege which is not being taken away… only temporarily suspended during such time that anyone is not a net contributor, financially. The wealthy in this country are paying their share.
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Post by aufan on Mar 21, 2023 22:12:31 GMT
By that graph, approximately 5% of the total taxes and 10% of the total wealth. That ratio is at least flipped from what it should be. And that graph is horribly out of date base on the growth in wealth during the last few years. The wealthiest are the biggest net benefactors of the United States being the way it is, and should shoulder a much bigger burden of supporting it. I’ll admit I might be brainwashed, but compare the two thought processes: I’m asking for people who take joy rides to outer space to be taxed more. You are asking to strip rights away from people because they can’t afford basic necessities for life. My brainwashing I can gladly live with. Your brainwashing should at least cause severe bouts of cognitive dissonance on Sunday mornings. Elon paid more tax for the past two years than any human in history. And yet, for you? It’s not enough. It’ll never be enough for people consumed with envy. That’s one of the “Big Ten” commandments. Voting is a privilege which is not being taken away… only temporarily suspended during such time that anyone is not a net contributor, financially. The wealthy in this country are paying their share. You’re using ajbuckeye math. Comparing absolutes instead of relatives. Who cares how much Musk has paid in tax without making it relative to how much he is worth or how much he makes. I think my point is lost on you, as this is the second post that you haven’t understood it: the problem is how much in taxes are paid relative to how much these people benefit. Billionaires with 10% of the wealth should pay more than 5% of the taxes. By your logic if someone owns 99% of the wealth, and pays 98% of the taxes, the poor people are not only mooching, but jealous as well. Laughable. P.S. your appeal to the Ten Commandments does not resonate with me. They may work on those who have Christian values while simultaneously holding political beliefs that contradict those Christian values.
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Post by bluehen on Mar 21, 2023 22:47:03 GMT
Speaking of the ten commandments. Has anyone ever located Mt. Siani ? Moses and the burning bush and all that old testament stuff happened in a book but did it actually happen on tangible, physical Earth.....and where ?
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Post by Bevo on Mar 22, 2023 0:13:25 GMT
Billionaires with 10% of the wealth should pay more than 5% of the taxes. Well... that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. I disagree. I don't think anyone should have to pay more than 50% of their income to the government. Rich guys like Elon provide a helluva lot of good to the world, to a WHOLE lot of people. More from what he does than from the taxes he pays. I see no reason to further punish him by taking away his income. There was never a rule or guarantee that we would all have equal outcomes. That's part of the secret to this country's success.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 22, 2023 0:18:54 GMT
Speaking of the ten commandments. Has anyone ever located Mt. Siani ? Moses and the burning bush and all that old testament stuff happened in a book but did it actually happen on tangible, physical Earth.....and where ? What difference does it make Hen? Cecille B. Demille made a burning bush that looks real enough. Why do you have such little faith that someone couldn't have done something similar well enough to fool a very primitive people? We got the list from somewhere. And, it's a pretty good starter set for civilization.
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Post by Bevo on Mar 22, 2023 0:21:29 GMT
as this is the second post that you haven’t understood it: the problem is how much in taxes are paid relative to how much these people benefit. Billionaires with 10% of the wealth should pay more than 5% of the taxes. By your logic if someone owns 99% of the wealth, and pays 98% of the taxes, the poor people are not only mooching, but jealous as well. I'm quite sure many of those poor would indeed be very jealous. But, they wouldn't be the HAPPY ones.
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Post by aufan on Mar 22, 2023 1:20:56 GMT
Billionaires with 10% of the wealth should pay more than 5% of the taxes. Well... that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. I disagree. I don't think anyone should have to pay more than 50% of their income to the government. Rich guys like Elon provide a helluva lot of good to the world, to a WHOLE lot of people. More from what he does than from the taxes he pays. I see no reason to further punish him by taking away his income. There was never a rule or guarantee that we would all have equal outcomes. That's part of the secret to this country's success. As I thought. Have fun on Sundays!
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Post by Bevo on Mar 22, 2023 2:07:15 GMT
Well... that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. I disagree. I don't think anyone should have to pay more than 50% of their income to the government. Rich guys like Elon provide a helluva lot of good to the world, to a WHOLE lot of people. More from what he does than from the taxes he pays. I see no reason to further punish him by taking away his income. There was never a rule or guarantee that we would all have equal outcomes. That's part of the secret to this country's success. As I thought. Have fun on Sundays! I usually do.
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Post by tigercpa on Mar 22, 2023 13:36:28 GMT
Just a gentle reminder that we have an income tax process, not a wealth tax process - the except being the Lifetime Gift and Estate Tax Process.
For tax year 2020, the top 1 percent of income earners paid 42.3 percent of all federal income tax; the top 5 percent paid 62.7 percent, and the top 10 percent paid 73.7 percent.
The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 20.1 percent in 2019 to 22.2 percent in 2020 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 38.8 percent to 42.3 percent.
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent.
So the Top 1% earned 20% of the income, but paid >40% of the income taxes. That's not "fair". I put fair in quotes, because the usual hue and cry is "rich people need to pay their fair share".
The top 1% paid an average rate of 26%. Biden's favorite prevarication is that school teachers and firefighters pay a higher rate than billionaires. "That's not who we are!" "We need to be better!"
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