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Post by bluehen on Jan 30, 2016 22:59:06 GMT
Thousands of hate extremists and assorted evil, mentally deranged, psychotic, brainless lunatics running around with large magazine semi-automatic assault rifles and pistols is in no imaginable way a 'well regulated militia'. No gun glut lobby will ever convince me otherwise. I agree with much of that. However, the NRA doesn't advocate arming the mentally deranged. The one major group you neglected to mention is street gangs, who terrorize major cities that have strict gun control laws. C'mon, FHF. The NRA advocates selling dangerous weapons to anyone that will buy them.....as proven over and over again by it's stringent opposition to universal background checks.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Jan 31, 2016 1:27:27 GMT
I agree with much of that. However, the NRA doesn't advocate arming the mentally deranged. The one major group you neglected to mention is street gangs, who terrorize major cities that have strict gun control laws. C'mon, FHF. The NRA advocates selling dangerous weapons to anyone that will buy them.....as proven over and over again by it's stringent opposition to universal background checks. NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre, NRA convention, May 4, 2013: "Well, I don’t know what kind of polling they do at the White House, but I do know this: When it comes to keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals or the mentally deranged, NRA members agree 100 percent!"
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 31, 2016 12:34:56 GMT
Hen, what is your definition of a well-regulated militia?
I pretty well agree with Daniel Webster............. 'managed, administered, supervised, good order ( regulated) plus " a body of men enrolled for military service and called out periodically for drill and exercise but serving full time only in emergencies ( militia). That's a well regulated militia and I would support that. That's fair.
However, the bolded terms in the above directly conflict with what the Founders intended and wanted, especially "supervised" and 'enrolled for military service."
The term well-regulated, in context, refers to the concept of self-regulation, not being micro-managed by the state.
Notice "A" well regulated militia, not "The" well regulated militia. This further differentiates between the militia of the people, versus the militia / military / standing army that can be called aup and administered by Congress or the president.
Also, since one the fundamental purposes of a militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army (which the Founders knew was dangerous in the wrong hands), the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed ordinary citizens making up a militia have the level of equipment necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.
Remember, the musket was the assault rifle of its time. And, there were also repeating rifles in existence at the time, and several were presented to Congress, but Congress thought them too expensive and did not purchase them for use.
I may not convince you, but at least consider this: a militia is something quite different than a murderous, very small percent of angry people and criminals who do these killings.
A militia is NOT just a bunch of people with guns, it IS however a bunch of people with guns who have an important common and foundational goal. That goal is to preserve our right to "life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 31, 2016 12:38:49 GMT
C'mon, FHF. The NRA advocates selling dangerous weapons to anyone that will buy them.....as proven over and over again by it's stringent opposition to universal background checks. NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre, NRA convention, May 4, 2013: "Well, I don’t know what kind of polling they do at the White House, but I do know this: When it comes to keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals or the mentally deranged, NRA members agree 100 percent!" The NRA is also a big proponent of expanded mental health checks for gun purchase applications, but all of the civil rights groups usually block that because a person's health is "private" matter.
This was borne out in the VT shooting.
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 31, 2016 12:40:10 GMT
I agree with much of that. However, the NRA doesn't advocate arming the mentally deranged. The one major group you neglected to mention is street gangs, who terrorize major cities that have strict gun control laws. C'mon, FHF. The NRA advocates selling dangerous weapons to anyone that will buy them.....as proven over and over again by it's stringent opposition to universal background checks. It depends on how you define a "universal" background check.
That's the issue. The NRA supports many checks and balances on gun purchasing, but the media has a narrative, and they rarely deviate from it.
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Post by bluehen on Jan 31, 2016 15:10:35 GMT
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Post by Bevo on Jan 31, 2016 17:12:48 GMT
Slate is a VERY biased news source... so, I have my doubts that these quotes are accurate. But, assuming they are? They are actually rather convincing to me.
I don't see the need for the government to be involved when I sell a shotgun to a neighbor. Heck, I raffled one off once... do I have to get background checks on all 100 people who bought a ticket?
Background checks are a "feel good" solution that are NOT very effective. Just note the most recent shooting events. The perps all passed the checks, or... in a few cases, the government was incapable of DOING a good check. Heck, our government can't even tell who IS, or ISN'T a citizen. How in the hell will they every be able to tell us, with ANY certitude, who should or shouldn't be buying a gun. It's simply another HUGE, bloated government program that wastes money and does little, if any, good.
The bottom line is: the data shows this is NOT a serious problem that should concern most people in this country. The odds are miniscule. Which, makes me wonder? Why do liberals and the media hype them so hard?
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Post by tigercpa2 on Jan 31, 2016 18:50:47 GMT
You could have helped your argument had you not picked slate. Slate is one of the most extreme left media organizations out there.
"Anti-gun violence folks are interested in action" - not so much, they are interested in controlling guns, not gun violence.
They don't give a damn about gun violence - if they did, they would, take the army and go into Chicago and LA, and Detriot and NO and East St. Louis and mop up these neighborhoods where the vast majority of "gun violence" occurs. Here again, we are faced with the inconvenient truth about who commits violent crimes with or without guns. Everyone knows who does, but few want to do anything about it - for fear of the media using the R-word.
Ultimately, they are interested in taking our guns, because without that, they cannot have complete control. Multiple legislative efforts have been introduced in many jurisdictions for banning and confiscating all weapons with no grandfather clause.
All across the USA, stolen guns, originally purchased legally, are being used in crimes.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Jan 31, 2016 20:31:22 GMT
Who knows why a well regulated militia was so important to the framers of the Constitution?
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Post by Hero on Jan 31, 2016 23:19:01 GMT
Anti gun violence folks are interested in action...not NRA rhetoric. You are right but not for the reason you think. Slate magazine too funny
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Post by Hero on Jan 31, 2016 23:23:36 GMT
You could have helped your argument had you not picked slate. Slate is one of the most extreme left media organizations out there.
"Anti-gun violence folks are interested in action" - not so much, they are interested in controlling guns, not gun violence.
They don't give a damn about gun violence - if they did, they would, take the army and go into Chicago and LA, and Detriot and NO and East St. Louis and mop up these neighborhoods where the vast majority of "gun violence" occurs. Here again, we are faced with the inconvenient truth about who commits violent crimes with or without guns. Everyone knows who does, but few want to do anything about it - for fear of the media using the R-word.
Ultimately, they are interested in taking our guns, because without that, they cannot have complete control. Multiple legislative efforts have been introduced in many jurisdictions for banning and confiscating all weapons with no grandfather clause.
All across the USA, stolen guns, originally purchased legally, are being used in crimes.
I agree on every point.
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 1, 2016 13:47:08 GMT
Chicago is off to a great start in 2016.
Shootings are up 100% in January, compared to January last year.
Murders are up 75% in the same period.
Who is doing all this shooting?
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 4, 2016 14:53:55 GMT
My thing is, at the end of the day, people are acting like this "gun violence" is some kind of tsunami...it's not.
Out of 32,000 a year killed by guns:
Roughly 2/3rds (21,000) are suicides - that's not gun violence. The US ranks 50th in suicides, and many higher ranked countries allow NO guns at all.
Now we are down to 11,000.
Of the 11,000 - who is being killed and who is doing the killing?
85% is attributable to criminals killing other criminals. More "common sense" gun laws will not stop this aspect. Criminals will not respect any laws.
So that leaves us with roughly 2,000. Subtract from that accidents and mishaps, those are not "gun violence" either.
We are left with about the same number of people who die from hernias each year.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 4, 2016 22:45:36 GMT
My thing is, at the end of the day, people are acting like this "gun violence" is some kind of tsunami...it's not.
Out of 32,000 a year killed by guns:
Roughly 2/3rds (21,000) are suicides - that's not gun violence. The US ranks 50th in suicides, and many higher ranked countries allow NO guns at all.
Now we are down to 11,000.
Of the 11,000 - who is being killed and who is doing the killing?
85% is attributable to criminals killing other criminals. More "common sense" gun laws will not stop this aspect. Criminals will not respect any laws.
So that leaves us with roughly 2,000. Subtract from that accidents and mishaps, those are not "gun violence" either.
We are left with about the same number of people who die from hernias each year.
We have a HERNIA problem! Who knew???
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 5, 2016 5:18:28 GMT
Obamacare is many times more deadly than guns: • 12,000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery • 7,000 deaths per year due to medication errors in hospitals • 20,000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals • 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals • 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs The U.S. healthcare system is the third leading cause of the death in the U.S., after heart disease and cancer. www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm
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