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Post by Bevo on Feb 26, 2017 5:24:22 GMT
Rumors circulating that John McCain is the leak. If true, would be a huge blow. McCain seems lost. I have no idea what he believes in. Integrity is gone. There are few people in Washington that I have Despised more than John McCain. He was a dumbass, who barely made it through the Naval Academy. (Last in his class, passed because of his Dad)... Went to Vietnam, and got shot down.... Because he flew too low... Became a hero because (and I do give him BIG props for this...). He refused to be released before his fellow prisoners. Then, got elected, on NAME recognition only, to the Senate....and has sat there, forever, doing nothing but harm to the conservative cause. It turns my stomach to think we nominated this ASS CLOWN for Presdent. Now? He's lost what shred of mind he had. He needs to disappear..... Like, in the desert.
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 26, 2017 12:28:12 GMT
151 last night. It was a good rum.
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 26, 2017 12:31:25 GMT
Rumors circulating that John McCain is the leak. If true, would be a huge blow. Rumors from where? How did McCain (allegedly) get the information to leak? Was he (allegedly) on the inside or was he (allegedly) given information by someone who was on the inside? " a prominent republican" ?
"a senior US official, speaking anonymously" ?
"according to those familiar with the situation, but not authorized to speak publicly" ?
"17 intelligence agencies"
"Putin and the Kremlin"
"MI6"
"Mossad"
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 26, 2017 12:42:42 GMT
McCain seems lost. I have no idea what he believes in. Integrity is gone. There are few people in Washington that I have Despised more than John McCain. He was a dumbass, who barely made it through the Naval Academy. (Last in his class, passed because of his Dad)... Went to Vietnam, and got shot down...Twice... Because he flew too low... Became a hero because (and I do give him BIG props for this...). He refused to be released before his fellow prisoners. Then, got elected, on NAME recognition only, to the Senate....and has sat there, forever, doing nothing but harm to the conservative cause. It turns my stomach to think we nominated the ASS CLOWN for Presdent. Now? He's lost what shred of mind he had. He needs to disappear..... Like, in the desert. Why does AZ keep subjecting us to McCain?
He is why the Benghazi investigations were just bluster - McCain himself is balls deep in the whole Libya fiasco.
He was pictured with Stevens, ISIS leaders and various other terrorists. He was part of the whole fund ISIS via weapons from Libya scheme.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 26, 2017 14:22:29 GMT
Rumors from where? How did McCain (allegedly) get the information to leak? Was he (allegedly) on the inside or was he (allegedly) given information by someone who was on the inside? " a prominent republican" ?
"a senior US official, speaking anonymously" ?
"according to those familiar with the situation, but not authorized to speak publicly" ?
"17 intelligence agencies"
"Putin and the Kremlin"
"MI6"
"Mossad"
Nothing in your response even remotely implicates McCain. My questions were simple, reasonable and to the point. If you have something, please let us know.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 26, 2017 14:33:28 GMT
tigercpa: "He was pictured with Stevens, ISIS leaders and various other terrorists. He was part of the whole fund ISIS via weapons from Libya scheme."
I have never heard this before.
Why would Ambassador Stevens be meeting with "ISIS leaders and various other terrorists"? In the course of his duties, Stevens often met with unsavory characters, many of whom had no particular allegiance to any side.
U.S. military and intelligence personnel routinely did exactly the same thing, as they should have, in the performance of their duties in Iraq.
I am hoping that this isn't a cheap shot. I strongly disagree with John McCain (and Lindsay Graham) on a lot of things, but I cannot imagine him conspiring to arm ISIS.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 26, 2017 15:02:44 GMT
Went to Vietnam, and got shot down...Twice... Because he flew too low...
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Post by Bevo on Feb 26, 2017 17:07:08 GMT
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Post by Hero on Feb 26, 2017 23:16:39 GMT
151 last night. It was a good rum.
Wish I was there to salute the Tigers with you.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 27, 2017 1:14:40 GMT
Instead of attacking John McCain personally, including his combat record, why didn't you simply cite his positions on issues with which you disagree, and explain why you believe that he is wrong. You didn't cite a single issue. Not one. Have you ever served in combat, like John McCain? If you had, then you would know that combat pilots hot dog all the time. The most notorious were fighter pilots on their return to base on their final mission. They would fly 50 feet off the ground and buzz G.I.s with their backs turned. You hear nothing until the jet is directly over your head. It sounds like a huge bomb detonating a few feet from you. I was a "victim" more than once. Then, they kick in their afterburners and climb straight up. On the way down, they do loops and barrel rolls. Routine stuff. On the way back from a mission, they would tune their ADFs to radio Saigon (or the equivalent, depending upon where they were) and chill out. BTW -- what I provided was the text of McCain's official commendation for his bombing mission when he was shot down. You can disagree with John McCain all you want on issues, but it diminishes you when you attack him personally, and even more so when you attack his war record. John McCain is a hero of the first order.
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Post by Hero on Feb 27, 2017 1:38:22 GMT
Instead of attacking John McCain personally, including his combat record, why didn't you simply cite his positions on issues with which you disagree, and explain why you believe that he is wrong. You didn't cite a single issue. Not one. Instead of trying to get others to do your homework for you, why don't you do it yourself. I know another personal attack will follow as that is all you have...fire away.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 27, 2017 2:42:41 GMT
Instead of attacking John McCain personally, including his combat record, why didn't you simply cite his positions on issues with which you disagree, and explain why you believe that he is wrong. You didn't cite a single issue. Not one. Have you ever served in combat, like John McCain? If you had, then you would know that combat pilots hot dog all the time. The most notorious were fighter pilots on their return to base on their final mission. They would fly 50 feet off the ground and buzz G.I.s with their backs turned. You hear nothing until the jet is directly over your head. It sounds like a huge bomb detonating a few feet from you. I was a "victim" more than once. Then, they kick in their afterburners and climb straight up. On the way down, they do loops and barrel rolls. Routine stuff. On the way back from a mission, they would tune their ADFs to radio Saigon (or the equivalent, depending upon where they were) and chill out. BTW -- what I provided was the text of McCain's official commendation for his bombing mission when he was shot down. You can disagree with John McCain all you want on issues, but it diminishes you when you attack him personally, and even more so when you attack his war record. John McCain is a hero of the first order. I disagree with John McCain on so many issues, if I took time to do that, I'd have no time to do ANYTHING else. McCain tells everyone he was shot down by a SAM. His official report says it was AA. Why does that matter? He wasn't supposed to be at an altitude where AA could reach him. And, it's just a lie. But, what does that matter? Why mess up a good story. He's wrong on immigration, he was (as Tiger mentioned) one of the leaders of the idea of sending arms to "moderate rebels" in Syria.... groups that were pre-cursors to ISIS, he supports bans on off-shore drilling, he's FOR EVERY war... anywhere, anytime... and, he's UNRELIABLE as a partner in politics. He goes to foreign soil to openly criticize a President of his own party. He needs to shut up, and go away.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 27, 2017 4:46:44 GMT
You don't know what the hell you are talking about.
You are just regurgitating mindless drivel from web sites that don't like John McCain.
What were you doing while John McCain was being tortured, day after day, for year after year? What were you doing while John McCain was kept in isolation after he had rejected an opportunity to go home.
John McCain put his life on the line every time he took off on a mission. He volunteered for sorties he wasn't required to take.
FYI -- the effective range of small arms fire might be 4,000 to 4,500 feet. But, the North Vietnamese were using state of the art Soviet self-propelled AAA (not AA), with an effective range up to ten-fold higher - 45,000 feet.
I don't know much about Navy aircraft, other than the A-1, but I would be surprised if the A-4 had a ceiling above 45,000 feet. Even if it did, it wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a barn in a bombing run from that altitude.
B-52s could be effective at altitude because they would drop 80 500-pound bombs at a time. I have been up close and personal with B-52 strikes, and it was like the world was coming to an end.
U.S. aircraft, particularly F-100s, A-1s and Army Huey Cobras, routinely would dive one after another well below 4,000 in attack runs firing missiles and/or 20mm guns. I know, because I have seen it with my own two eyes.
C-123s, C-130 and AC-47s flew low and slow. They were full of holes from small arms fire, which were sometimes patched with metal from beer cans. The FACs, such as the O-2, flew even lower and slower, and were continually being patched up.
I will never cease to be amazed at how people who have never served in uniform, much less been in combat, can question the actions of those who did put their lives on the line day in, day out.
Donald Trump is exhibit 1 - he prefers heroes who weren't POWs. How pathetic.
Bottom line - what earthly difference does it make whether McCain's plane was hit by a missile or by AAA? Whichever, he was shot down and suffered severe torture on a daily basis for years.
Regardless, it doesn't make any difference when it comes to the price of a loaf of bread.
Finally, your rambling laundry list of issues with which you disagree with John McCain fails to impress. If you want to make a point, I recommend that you take each issue one st a time. What did John McCain say on an issue, and when? How did he vote? What legislation did he propose? Then, tell us your position and why you disagree with McCain. Do a little homework.
If you care enough to be intellectually honest, also point out the issues with which you and McCain agree.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 27, 2017 14:37:46 GMT
Bottom line - what earthly difference does it make whether McCain's plane was hit by a missile or by AAA? Are you suggesting that McCain couldn't tell the difference between a missile and AAA? Not even when he heard and read the official reports from the other pilots that were with him? It's a testimony to his personal integrity and state of mind.
When McCain was flying missions, I was playing football in the streets. I appreciate his service on my behalf. That doesn't mean I must support him politically for the rest of his life. I voted for him. Never have I been more ashamed of a my vote. I never believed he would make a good President, but assumed he would be better than Obama. Even now, I'm not so sure about that.
Honestly, I don't care about the man enough to undertake a month's long examination of his record with you. I've seen and heard enough DIRECTLY FROM HIM over the past 30 years to have an informed opinion. I don't need to justify it to you.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 27, 2017 15:12:43 GMT
Are you suggesting that McCain couldn't tell the difference between a missile and AAA? Not even when he heard and read the official reports from the other pilots that were with him? It's a testimony to his personal integrity and state of mind. Trust me. You don't want to know what I think. Wikipedia:
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