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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 27, 2017 15:29:48 GMT
1. When McCain was flying missions, I was playing football in the streets. I appreciate his service on my behalf. 2. That doesn't mean I must support him politically for the rest of his life. I voted for him. Never have I been more ashamed of a my vote. I never believed he would make a good President, but assumed he would be better than Obama. Even now, I'm not so sure about that. 3. Honestly, I don't care about the man enough to undertake a month's long examination of his record with you. I've seen and heard enough DIRECTLY FROM HIM over the past 30 years to have an informed opinion. I don't need to justify it to you.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 27, 2017 16:42:58 GMT
1) I don't care what you believe. Charles Whitman was a veteran... I appreciate his service when it was given. Not a big fan of his later in life.
2) It's a pretty basic measure of his honesty.
3) McCain's character and integrity have been far more diminished by him than by me.
Of course I agree with him on many issues. Probably more than 50%. But, he's wrong on some of the biggest: Like immigration and global warming. When someone on "our side" starts attacking "our team"... it's particularly damaging. It's especially offensive when it's done for the sole purpose of ingratiating oneself with the MSM and getting invited on to Sunday news programs, for free publicity. McCain has built a career on this kind of crap.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 27, 2017 23:25:54 GMT
1) I don't care what you believe. Charles Whitman was a veteran... I appreciate his service when it was given. Not a big fan of his later in life.
Comparing John McCain to Charles Whitman? You might disagree with McCain on a lot of political issues, but he was a genuine war hero and has led an honorable life. You have dug yourself into a hole. My advice is for you to stop digging.
2) It's a pretty basic measure of his honesty.
Your opinion of McCain's political views is a measure of his honesty? Say what??
3) McCain's character and integrity have been far more diminished by him than by me.
You have gone off the deep end, big time. Why can't you simply attack his positions on issues? He hasn't assaulted women, as Donald Trump has bragged about doing. He hasn't cheated thousands of regular people out of their money by running a fake university, like Donald Trump did.
Of course I agree with him on many issues. Probably more than 50%. But, he's wrong on some of the biggest: Like immigration and global warming. When someone on "our side" starts attacking "our team"... it's particularly damaging. It's especially offensive when it's done for the sole purpose of ingratiating oneself with the MSM and getting invited on to Sunday news programs, for free publicity. McCain has built a career on this kind of crap.
Great. I am with you on almost everything. I would add Lindsay Graham in along with McCain. You could have made a strong case without stooping to attack him personally. You don't have to follow in Donald Trump's footsteps.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 28, 2017 1:21:04 GMT
Comparing John McCain to Charles Whitman? No... I was not. And, you know I was not. No comparison beyond the fact that they were BOTH veterans, and I'm happy that they sacrificed on my behalf. 2) It's a pretty basic measure of his honesty. Your opinion of McCain's political views is a measure of his honesty? Say what?? My mistake... I lost track of what your numbers were referring to. I was trying to reference the discrepancy between the link YOU POSTED... which said he was shot down by AAA, and McCain's own account where he claims it was a SAM. Which was it? Can pilots REALLY not tell the difference? Were all the other pilots just wrong? I don't know... I just find it interesting that there still seems to be so much disagreement. You have gone off the deep end, big time. Not sure why my statement there offended you so deeply. Do you really believe my one paragraph "character assault" damaged John McCain's reputation more than his own actions? I certainly don't. I stated..."There are few people in Washington that I have Despised more than John McCain". That was an accurate statement of my opinion. I stated he became as "hero" because he "He refused to be released before his fellow prisoners." That's also a statement of my opinion, but... I think it's accurate. I also stated "I do give him BIG props for this". I do. He could have wimped out, and benefitted from his privilege... he didn't. I admire that courage. Then, I said... "he got elected, on NAME recognition only, to the Senate....and has sat there, forever, doing nothing but harm to the conservative cause". Yet another statement of my opinion, but... again, one I feel pretty confident in. He's a despicable uber-political creature, who has harmed this country in later life more than he ever helped it earlier. In my own opinion.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 28, 2017 1:37:59 GMT
You said a lot more than that. You trashed his military career. Are you even remotely worthy of savaging a true American hero?
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Post by Hero on Feb 28, 2017 1:45:37 GMT
You said a lot more than that. You trashed his military career. Are you even remotely worthy of savaging a true American hero? No one is worthy but you.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 28, 2017 2:06:18 GMT
Bevo: "I was trying to reference the discrepancy between the link YOU POSTED... which said he was shot down by AAA, and McCain's own account where he claims it was a SAM. Which was it? Can pilots REALLY not tell the difference? Were all the other pilots just wrong? I don't know... I just find it interesting that there still seems to be so much disagreement."
Wikipedia says that it was a SAM, and provided corroboration from the North Vietnamese. McCain's commendation says that it was AAA.
Imagine yourself as the pilot, and your wing was just blown off. How could you possibly know whether it was by a SAM, AAA or even by an air-to-air missile? McCain's assumption that it was by a SAM was certainly reasonable because he knew that ground radar from a SAM battery had locked on to his plane.
In any event, he was within range of SAMs and AAA, and would have been within range of SAMs and AAA if he was flying at the ceiling for his aircraft. Ultimately, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference which it was.
The problem is that you don't know what you are talking about, and apparently confused the range of AAA (45,000 feet) with the range of small arms fire (4,500 feet). Those who have been there, done that, know the difference.
You want to accuse McCain of violating rules by flying below 4,500 feet. You obviously didn't know that this was standard practice, and was the only way to deliver his bombs with sufficient accuracy. I have seen it myself many, many times, up close and personal.
You desperately wanted to use this falsehood to accuse McCain of violating protocols. You choose to ignore his commendation, which praises his piloting skills and courage under enemy fire.
Instead of attacking McCain's views on issues, you recklessly attacked his exceptional bravery in combat. That is despicable. That is what I expect from Donald Trump, but not from you.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 28, 2017 2:06:43 GMT
You said a lot more than that. You trashed his military career. Are you even remotely worthy of savaging a true American hero? No one is worthy but you. Not funny.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 28, 2017 2:11:47 GMT
You said a lot more than that. You trashed his military career. Are you even remotely worthy of savaging a true American hero? LOL I said this: "He was a dumbass, who barely made it through the Naval Academy. (Last in his class, passed because of his Dad)" TRUE! Well, he was in the bottom 1%... maybe, not "last". And this: "Went to Vietnam, and got shot down.... Because he flew too low... " Which, is undoubtedly half true. I Can't be sure about the second half. But, I have read reports from people who should know, and have doubts... That's hardly "trashing his military career".
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Post by Bevo on Feb 28, 2017 2:17:20 GMT
Ultimately, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference which it was. His "official commendation" says it was AAA. Other pilots flying with him, apparently, have stated is was NOT a SAM. I can understand a pilot not knowing, in the heat of battle.... but, after reading all the other reports? Why would he continue to challenge the reports of others in the battle.. who weren't shot down and injured? There are, other "questions" from his military career, serious ones... . Seems to be little question that he was a "hot shot punk".. but, if you say navy pilots were ALL like that. I guess I'll accept your word for it. No big matter... it's not the reason I despise McCain. That ALL comes from his later years.
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Post by Hero on Feb 28, 2017 2:27:21 GMT
No one is worthy but you. Not funny. I fully agree
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 28, 2017 3:53:43 GMT
Good.
But, since you brought it up, I am 1,000 times more worthy than Bevo to opine on McCain's military service, and particularly on his experience in combat. Even so, I am still unworthy.
McCain's fellow POWs are more than worthy. Many suffered as much physical and psychological torture as did McCain. Others also declined an offer for early release. All are heroes. Not all are supportive of McCain.
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Post by Hero on Feb 28, 2017 5:20:23 GMT
Good. But, since you brought it up, I am 1,000 times more worthy than Bevo to opine on McCain's military service, and particularly on his experience in combat. Even so, I am still unworthy. McCain's fellow POWs are more than worthy. Many suffered as much physical and psychological torture as did McCain. Others also declined an offer for early release. All are heroes. Not all are supportive of McCain. A legend
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Post by tigercpa on Feb 28, 2017 12:24:51 GMT
Herd, did you see Tucker Carlson destroy Bill Nye on climate change?
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 28, 2017 13:30:54 GMT
Herd, did you see Tucker Carlson destroy Bill Nye on climate change? No, but I hope that he did. There was a time when Bill Nye was somewhat entertaining, but he is totally in the tank with the "climate change" farce. Nauseating. However, I have learned from experience that when you say that Tucker Carlson has destroyed someone, it isn't always so.
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