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Post by bluehen on Jan 7, 2022 22:43:57 GMT
Where's the GOAT ?
Where's Bear Bryant ?
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Post by EvilVodka on Jan 8, 2022 0:20:19 GMT
Where's the GOAT ?
Where's Bear Bryant ?
Do you seriously think Jeff Tedford and June Jones are better than Nick Saban? |
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Post by bluehen on Jan 8, 2022 16:53:59 GMT
My post isn't about the abstract concept of "better", Evil. The facts simply offer that those coaches listed way ahead of Bear Bryant were more difficult to beat in bowls.....just as the facts state . (bowls only, bowls only, bowls only...just as the topic says)
There were only about 16 or so HCs that were more difficult to beat than Bear in all games.....also factual.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 8, 2022 19:54:22 GMT
Where's the GOAT ?
Where's Bear Bryant ?
Sort it by Total # of bowl wins and you’ll find Bear, and the GOAT (I assume you mean Saban. Good to see you acknowledging reality 😜) |
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Post by bluehen on Jan 8, 2022 23:12:10 GMT
total = quantity winning success rate = quality right ? ...and it's a 10 bowl game minimum factoid. Longevity records are legitimate but don't measure the difficult to beat factor.
What HCs have lost the most bowl games in bowl game history ?
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Post by Bevo on Jan 8, 2022 23:23:29 GMT
total = quantity winning success rate = quality right ? ...and it's a 10 bowl game minimum factoid. Longevity records are legitimate but don't measure the difficult to beat factor.
What HCs have lost the most bowl games in bowl game history ?
Maybe.. but, the sample sizes are small. A few fortunate matchups, or good break can skew the numbers when you're only talking about 10 games. The more games they play, the more all coached will revert to the mean: 50/50 |
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Post by bluehen on Jan 9, 2022 0:00:03 GMT
Ok that's plausable
Did you know that Bryant lost 7 consecutive bowl games during one stretch ?
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Post by Bevo on Jan 9, 2022 0:13:27 GMT
Ok that's plausable Did you know that Bryant lost 7 consecutive bowl games during one stretch ? yes... I'd seen that. Bear probably wasn't the best 1-game coach. Just, the best overall, long-term coach... Until Saban came along. Can we agree that, if Bama wins ANOTHER title on Monday, that Saban will have cemented his position as GOAT? |
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Post by bluehen on Jan 9, 2022 5:21:26 GMT
Absolutely not agree. He will move into 7th or 8th place with a 14-1 season among history's major coaches as far as difficulty to beat. Knute Rockne was almost twice as difficult to beat as Nick. He remains the GOAT. Nick may be the GROAT.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 9, 2022 19:50:53 GMT
Absolutely not agree. He will move into 7th or 8th place with a 14-1 season among history's major coaches as far as difficulty to beat. Knute Rockne was almost twice as difficult to beat as Nick. He remains the GOAT. Nick may be the GROAT. lol your single-minded obsession with Win % is really puzzling to me. |
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Post by Hero on Jan 9, 2022 21:33:13 GMT
Rolling and Laughing
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Post by bluehen on Jan 10, 2022 15:08:36 GMT
Absolutely not agree. He will move into 7th or 8th place with a 14-1 season among history's major coaches as far as difficulty to beat. Knute Rockne was almost twice as difficult to beat as Nick. He remains the GOAT. Nick may be the GROAT. lol your single-minded obsession with Win % is really puzzling to me. yep bevo. Winning % is fact....not perceived, not voted, not opinionated, not estimated, not hyped, not mythical, not made up....none of that. Sports fans that prefer facts have nothing to apologize for. It's not obsession it's just plain old hanging one's hat on facts.. There is no sport that is more mythical , hype, and opinion driven then big time college aged football. If you can mush through that fog there are facts to be found. It's nobody's opinion that Nick has the 8th best career winning % among FBS level HCs or 44th best among all CF HCs. It's nobody's opinion or perception that Nick has lost 20% of all the CF games he's ever coached (or higher if counting NFL) |
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Post by Bevo on Jan 10, 2022 19:01:41 GMT
lol your single-minded obsession with Win % is really puzzling to me. yep bevo. Winning % is fact...) Yes Hen, that's true. But, GOAT (Greatest College Coach of All-Time) is not FACT. It's 100% OPINION, and consensus. Based on an objective review of ALL the "facts" and some deeper understanding of why the facts are what they are. Win % is just ONE metric that goes into the decision. It's an important one, I'll grant you that. But, an objective (non-obsessed) person would understand and appreciate that Win % CAN be impacted by other factors, most significantly by, a given coach's career path. If, for instance, a coach wanted to MAXIMIZE his win %, he would START his career at a program that had not a losing season in 30 years (only 1 in their existence), and then coach there for the minimum number of years necessary to qualify for consideration. Not saying Rockne ever thought about that for one second. But, THAT is how you skew a FACTUAL statistic in a way that presents a incomplete picture. Statisticians do that kind of thing ALL the time. I think that kind of performance is incredible, and worthy of admiration. But, when I'm looking for a "best coach", I'm far more impressed by coaches who went to multiple places that SUCKED FOREVER, and made them winners. And by, coaches who WIN at the highest level, (ie; Championships, as determined by the rules of his time) MORE than ANYONE else. If Saban had a lifetime Win% below 50%? I'd weigh that heavily against his accumulation of titles. But, I'm not going to disqualify a GOAT with more titles than anyone, who coached at 4 different schools, just because he's #14 or #20 on the ALL-TIME list of Win %. Hell, a lot of sites that keep coach stats don't even bother to show Win%. That's how unimportant THEY think it is. GOATs cannot be determined by any one, single statistic. Life just isn't THAT simple. |
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Post by bluehen on Jan 10, 2022 22:23:49 GMT
GOAT hypers with an agenda certainly will not mention that Nick has lost about 1 in every 5 games he ever coached. I haven't heard this in a decade or more from assorted ESPN talking heads.
Bevo, I get the feeling that you are not aware that Knute Rockne was killed in a plane crash at the height of his dominance.
In your reference to Nick's 4 coaching stops : If you divide them into programs without raw talent advantages ( Toledo, Michigan State, Dolphins) and those with obvious raw talent advantages ( LSU & Alabama) You'll absolutely find that Nick's coaching success is 'pretty good' at the moderately talented programs and undeniably' great' at the ultra talented programs. Nick needs raw talent advantages for greatness and this is why I nominate him for GROAT more so than GOAT.
btw, I agree w/you about more than one matrix to measure 'greatness' but none more important than winning...that's the mother matrix.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 11, 2022 0:55:11 GMT
GOAT hypers with an agenda certainly will not mention that Nick has lost about 1 in every 5 games he ever coached. I haven't heard this in a decade or more from assorted ESPN talking heads. Bevo, I get the feeling that you are not aware that Knute Rockne was killed in a plane crash at the height of his dominance. In your reference to Nick's 4 coaching stops : If you divide them into programs without raw talent advantages ( Toledo, Michigan State, Dolphins) and those with obvious raw talent advantages ( LSU & Alabama) You'll absolutely find that Nick's coaching success is 'pretty good' at the moderately talented programs and undeniably' great' at the ultra talented programs. Nick needs raw talent advantages for greatness and this is why I nominate him for GROAT more so than GOAT. btw, I agree w/you about more than one matrix to measure 'greatness' but none more important than winning...that's the mother matrix. No.. they talk about how he WON 4 out of every 5. That's not horrible, Hen. I was not remembering that Rockne died in a plane crash. After you mentioned it, I did. But, that doesn't change my point. It doensn't matter WHY he only coached 13 years. If you want to maximize your win %, it's best to limit the number of years. His tragic death help solidify his high number. The longer you do it, the more likely you are to revert to the mean. Bear gets more credit from me for turning perennial LOSERS into winners than Saban. But, Nick now has the lead on CHAMPIONSHIPs.. and, several of Nick's were harder to win, requiring "mini-playoffs". Not just the voting kind that Bear got. Because of that, right now, I have them TIED as GOAT. When Nick wins another, I think the balance it tilted in his favor.... permanently. Maybe tonight? FYI>> One of Bear's grand-daughters contacted me, begging me NOT to rate Saban higher. But, I have my ethical standards!  |
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