|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 2, 2016 21:23:39 GMT
Dang... We vote on Saturday. I had just about convinced myself to vote for Dr. Carson... just so I could be proud of my vote.
Now, I suppose it will be Ted Cruz. |
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Mar 3, 2016 11:45:19 GMT
At least half the time my favorite drops out. But the thing which drives me up the wall about our country is that most of us claim to believe and uphold the Constitution and we claim we believe in Majority Rule. Yet, 90% of the Media calls me a Racist, Bigot, Sexist, Homophobe and a War Monger because I support a certain candidate. (I don't call them Baby Killers because they support abortion on demand, btw). Then, to show how AMERICAN they really are, they openly call for a STOP TRUMP movement. What? They do not want to go by Majority Rule? they want to find some way finagle him out of the Majority he won?
Well, call yourself what you will but if you want the Majority overturned with a brokered convention or some other scam, then to me you do not believe in Democracy but your own rule of law. I loathe some of our laws but I want them overturned at the polls, not some scam of a smoke-filled back room ritual. |
|
|
|
Post by EvilVodka on Mar 3, 2016 14:00:53 GMT
Then, to show how AMERICAN they really are, they openly call for a STOP TRUMP movement. What? They do not want to go by Majority Rule? they want to find some way finagle him out of the Majority he won?
The Republican party is playing with fire here.... Just goes to show how these major parties have lost touch with the common American people. It's a democracy, and we all get one vote...if you don't like Trump, vote for someone else. But this 11th hour Republican establishment blitz to try and derail their leading candidate is nuts.... Now Mitt Romney is speaking up?? Who cares? really?? Go back home Romney, you got your ass kicked last election |
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 3, 2016 14:26:12 GMT
Has there ever been better proof that the Republican Party Establishment wing is COMPLETELY out of touch with the people in their base?
This, is ridiculous. I used to have some respect for Mitt. Not much anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by tigercpa on Mar 3, 2016 14:47:45 GMT
They go after conservatives harder than they have gone after Obama.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 3, 2016 14:52:16 GMT
Funny analogy I saw.... explaining the "Trump Movement":
You’ve been on vacation for two weeks, you come home, and your basement is infested with raccoons. Hundreds of rabid, messy, mean raccoons have overtaken your basement. You want them gone immediately…You call the city and four different exterminators, but nobody could handle the job. There is this one guy however, who guarantees you he will get rid of them, so you hire him. You don’t care if the guy smells, you don’t care if the guy swears, you don’t care how many times he’s been married, you don’t care if he was friends with liberals, you don’t care if he has plumber’s crack…you simply want those raccoons gone!
|
|
hoya
New Member
Posts: 32 
|
Post by hoya on Mar 4, 2016 2:27:06 GMT
There may be a big change coming in the Republican party. It's basically been the same party since Reagan, so we're going on nearly 40 years of the same basic coalition. Arguably longer, because the foundation was likely laid with LBJ and the South's response to the Civil Rights Act. But definitely since Reagan. So for 35+ years, the Republican party has been made up of 1) religious conservatives, 2) foreign policy hawks, and 3) the wealthy (or those who hope to become wealthy). Everybody united together under an idea: traditional values and hard work make America the symbol of freedom to the world, as long as the government gets out of the way. All three groups can get behind that narrative. And for a long time, that worked.
Now we're starting to see those groups fragment.
I think this goes back to Bill Clinton, perhaps the greatest pure politician I've ever seen. When he's elected he pushes a traditional Democratic agenda. Nationalized health care, gun control, etc. That backfires and Newt's Contract With America pushes in a Republican majority in both houses for the first time since cavemen rode dinosaurs. Then a sexy (?) intern comes along and another scandal hits. And what Bill Clinton does the best political about-face that I've ever seen.
Suddenly a Democratic president is signing laws for welfare reform, and tax cuts. Sure, it's a Republican Congress that passes them, but Clinton is quick to take credit. And since then, Democrats have abandoned some of their traditional buddies to cozy up to Wall Street. The Dems have co-opted a lot of the Republican ideas. Want to bomb another country? Democrats can do that. Assassinate foreign citizens inside an ally's territory? No problem. Extend big tax breaks? Absolutely. Free trade agreements? Etc.
Other than Obamacare (which is way less liberal than Clinton's original health care proposal), what was the last big Democratic social program? (crickets)
Now, they've remained liberal, but we're really seeing that on social issues. Gay marriage, feminism, university campus "no white people" zones, etc. But they haven't done shit for the poor, or the working class for that matter. With Clinton, they swooped in and stole some of the popular policy positions that Republicans had held up to that point.
George W Bush comes along, and for Republicans everything is okay for a while. The cracks don't appear yet. Obama brings them out. We get the Tea Party. The Tea Party is really the rebellion of the religious conservatives. The Republican party really hadn't done much to shrink the government, much as they talked about it. The big business arm of the party didn't care about it, as long as taxes stayed low. The pro-military group didn't care about it, as long as they got new planes and tanks. But the religious conservatives did, because there's a strong element of State's Rights mixed in there with their religious beliefs (mainly due to where they're from). They're angry because the issues they really care about (abortion, gay marriage, etc) have been mostly ignored by their party.
Mainstream Republicans also have the problem that they can't really promise much to big business or the pro-military crowd that the Dems can't deliver. You want low taxes? Obama extended the Bush tax cuts. You want to bomb some people? Hillary is totally willing to do that too. She might botch it up, but she's willing to try at least.
Now, the Dems seizing Republican territory does come at a price. Remember how I said they've abandoned some of their traditional policy positions? Those voters didn't go anywhere. What we're seeing with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump is the same thing. It's not just that they're Washington "outsiders" (though how a Senator counts, I don't know), they're getting support because of traditional populist rhetoric. I think we're seeing the traditional blue collar Democrat looking for a new home. While the Democratic party has shifted towards a wealthy, highly educated, diversity at any cost group, their old fashioned union guys are being left out.
Think about it. The corporate exec isn't worried about Pablo the immigrant taking his job. It's the guy at the factory who worries about that. Concerns about immigration, overseas job losses, Muslims coming over, income inequality, these are the concerns of salt of the earth blue collar types. These are the people the Democrats traditionally catered to. But Wall Street money and the gay rights lobby have been running the Democratic party for quite a while now. So many of these people are flocking to Donald Trump.
It's too early to tell if I'm right. But I think this is the way the wind is blowing. Mitt Romney is making the last stand of the old Republican party right now. Whether it works or not, he may alienate the fairly large number of people who have been supporting Trump this election. How this plays out, I don't know.
|
|
|
|
Post by zoombag on Mar 4, 2016 5:19:27 GMT
Kacish is the darkhorse coming along late in the game...he slam dunked the debate tonight and with three of the four acting like 5 year olds, comes across as the only adult in the room. At some point, people will get past rhetoric and pay more attention to policy depth and the guy has been enormously successful at actually implementing fundamentally conservative policies to fix problems caused by liberals (like Cleveland public schools). With only four left, a guy like him finally gets some focus. He wins Ohio with a winner take all delegate count, and he instantly becomes a serious player
|
|
|
|
Post by Hero on Mar 4, 2016 14:04:21 GMT
Remember how I said they've abandoned some of their traditional policy positions? Those voters didn't go anywhere. What we're seeing with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump is the same thing. It's not just that they're Washington "outsiders" (though how a Senator counts, I don't know), they're getting support because of traditional populist rhetoric. I think we're seeing the traditional blue collar Democrat looking for a new home. While the Democratic party has shifted towards a wealthy, highly educated, diversity at any cost group, their old fashioned union guys are being left out. Think about it. The corporate exec isn't worried about Pablo the immigrant taking his job. It's the guy at the factory who worries about that. Concerns about immigration, overseas job losses, Muslims coming over, income inequality, these are the concerns of salt of the earth blue collar types. These are the people the Democrats traditionally catered to. But Wall Street money and the gay rights lobby have been running the Democratic party for quite a while now. So many of these people are flocking to Donald Trump. It's too early to tell if I'm right. But I think this is the way the wind is blowing. Mitt Romney is making the last stand of the old Republican party right now. Whether it works or not, he may alienate the fairly large number of people who have been supporting Trump this election. How this plays out, I don't know. Seeing Romney come out against Trump the way he has and realizing he represents all the old guard party makes me like Trump more. The party has one opportunity to stop Trump. All the other candidates have to get out now and leave only Cruz to fight it out with Trump. Everyone has to unite behind Cruz and push with all their might. That said, they won't. Kasich is the fly in the ointment. He keeps Rubio down(which doesn't take much effort) and will continue to do so with an Ohio win. Good bye to the Romney/Boehner party...good riddance. Long overdue |
|
|
|
Post by EvilVodka on Mar 4, 2016 14:22:11 GMT
There may be a big change coming in the Republican party. It's basically been the same party since Reagan, so we're going on nearly 40 years of the same basic coalition. Arguably longer, because the foundation was likely laid with LBJ and the South's response to the Civil Rights Act. But definitely since Reagan. So for 35+ years, the Republican party has been made up of 1) religious conservatives, 2) foreign policy hawks, and 3) the wealthy (or those who hope to become wealthy). Everybody united together under an idea: traditional values and hard work make America the symbol of freedom to the world, as long as the government gets out of the way. All three groups can get behind that narrative. And for a long time, that worked. Great post Those 3 groups have dwindled in size and power, and new generations, Gen X and Millenials, are taking over now....we want a 21 century President that works for us. Constantly being told what America stands for and what I'm supposed to believe gets old If Trump doesn't get the nomination, the Republican party will implode...that's what's so hilarious about the idiot republican establishment. Trump really is their only hope.... I think Hillary stomps Rubio, Cruz, or Kasich Rubio sounds like a little whiny boy... Cruz panders to the 3 groups you've mentioned. He's trying very hard for the evangelical and Reaganite vote. Unfortunately for him, that won't be enough to win an election, because those groups are dwindling in power. Kasich is bland and unmemorable despite his years of experience... Trump is the only Republican candidate that has a shot at Hillary.... It's not just left and right anymore....you have a Y axis in this now too. Anti-establishment vs. Establishment; American people vs. American Govt |
|
|
|
Post by EvilVodka on Mar 4, 2016 14:24:42 GMT
Kacish is the darkhorse coming along late in the game...he slam dunked the debate tonight and with three of the four acting like 5 year olds, comes across as the only adult in the room. At some point, people will get past rhetoric and pay more attention to policy depth and the guy has been enormously successful at actually implementing fundamentally conservative policies to fix problems caused by liberals (like Cleveland public schools). With only four left, a guy like him finally gets some focus. He wins Ohio with a winner take all delegate count, and he instantly becomes a serious player The problem with Kasich is he's not presenting anything new. His whole candidacy is based on his years of experience (which is undoubtedly impressive).... What most Americans want is CHANGE, a new direction away from what we've had.... |
|
|
|
Post by EvilVodka on Mar 4, 2016 14:29:46 GMT
There may be a big change coming in the Republican party. It's basically been the same party since Reagan, so we're going on nearly 40 years of the same basic coalition. Arguably longer, because the foundation was likely laid with LBJ and the South's response to the Civil Rights Act. But definitely since Reagan. So for 35+ years, the Republican party has been made up of 1) religious conservatives, 2) foreign policy hawks, and 3) the wealthy (or those who hope to become wealthy). Everybody united together under an idea: traditional values and hard work make America the symbol of freedom to the world, as long as the government gets out of the way. All three groups can get behind that narrative. And for a long time, that worked. opular policy positions that Republicans had held up to that point. Mitt Romney is making the last stand of the old Republican party right now. Whether it works or not, he may alienate the fairly large number of people who have been supporting Trump this election. How this plays out, I don't know. Seeing Romney come out against Trump the way he has and realizing he represents all the old guard party makes me like Trump more. The party has one opportunity to stop Trump. All the other candidates have to get out now and leave only Cruz to fight it out with Trump. Everyone has to unite behind Cruz and push with all their might. That said, they won't. Kasich is the fly in the ointment. He keeps Rubio down and will continue to do so with an Ohio win. Good bye Romney and friends...your day is done. Long overdue completely agree the old establishment on both sides is the problem IMO. It's just time for new leadership, new ideas, and a new direction |
|
|
|
Post by Bevo on Mar 4, 2016 15:52:12 GMT
The Tea Party is really the rebellion of the religious conservatives. The Republican party really hadn't done much to shrink the government, much as they talked about it. The big business arm of the party didn't care about it, as long as taxes stayed low. The pro-military group didn't care about it, as long as they got new planes and tanks. But the religious conservatives did, because there's a strong element of State's Rights mixed in there with their religious beliefs (mainly due to where they're from). They're angry because the issues they really care about (abortion, gay marriage, etc) have been mostly ignored by their party.
I think you've got a lot correct in what you said... but, I 100% disagree with you about the Tea Party. It was NOT started, or driven by Religious Conservatives. The Tea Party (Taxed Enough Already) was an uprising against the fiscal insanity of Obama's $1 Trillion "stimulus" plan. It was Rick Santelli ranting on TV about the stupidity and unfairness of proposals to bail out people in individual bad mortgage loans. I think you missed the third leg of the party. It's 1) religious conservatives, 2) National Security hawks, and 3) FISCAL conservatives. It was this last group that started (and still dominates) the Tea Party.
I attended a couple of TEA Party rallies when it first sprang up. I'm still good friends with one of it's leaders in Houston. It WAS NOT, and IS NOT driven by social issues. It got painted that way, by the media... in an attempt to discredit it. A couple of the Tea Party supported candidates got themselves in hot water saying stupid things about abortion. Granted, there is some overlap between fiscal and religious conservatives. But, the animating force behind the TEA party is FISCAL SANITY. $20 Trillion in debt, and >$200 Trillion in unfunded liabilities threaten the very existence of our country. Yea, that's enough to get MAD about.
I have said, for some time now, that opposition to unchecked illegal immigration is an issue that cuts across both parties. NEITHER PARTY is representing the desires of the majority of Americans on this issue. We want it STOPPED! Trump has people believing that he will be serious about this. I have my doubts. But, as long as people believe it? He will ride the wave to victory.
|
|
|
|
Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Mar 4, 2016 18:52:47 GMT
Clinton evolved into a Reagan Republican.
When is the last time you saw a candidate proudly proclaim to be a JFK Democrat? Ever?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hero on Mar 4, 2016 18:58:22 GMT
Clinton evolved into a Reagan Republican. When is the last time you saw a candidate proudly proclaim to be a JFK Democrat? Ever? Kerry may not have said the words but that was his goal. That would be John Forbes Kerry. |
|
