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Post by Bevo on Oct 16, 2021 1:25:28 GMT
Elitist
Nothing mythical about turning 4 losing teams into WINNING teams.
If Bear learned it from Neyland, he did longer and better.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 16, 2021 13:09:38 GMT
Bear's improvement/turnaround of 4 different programs is certainly impressive. However, how many of the 55 other CF head coaches that have higher career winning success rates than Bear also coached at multiple schools and improved their records ? ( Urban Meyer for example). I don't have that answer right now but will research it soon and get back with you. And Bevo, I must say, debating and discussing CF topics like this is so much more enjoyable when one offer factual history and does some research, like you..so thanks. Did you ever answer my question of 'Can you legitimately claim a national FB championship by losing your season ending bowl game? ....which Bryant did twice. You're probably also aware that Bear once lost 8 consecutive bowl games.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 16, 2021 13:18:01 GMT
Elitist Nothing mythical about turning 4 losing teams into WINNING teams. If Bear learned it from Neyland, he did longer and better. "longer" but not "better"
Longevity is , indeed, a part of 'greatness', but 'difficulty to beat' has far more weight, IMO. Only 8 other major level HCs in CF history were more difficult to beat than Gen. Bob Neyland.
btw I found the exact Bryant quotes :
"people think I'm the greatest damn coach in the world but Neyland taught me everything I know"
"Everyone thought Neyland had a jinx on us. It was no jinx. He was a better coach and had better players"
.........Paul Bryant
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Post by Bevo on Oct 16, 2021 15:36:53 GMT
Bear's improvement/turnaround of 4 different programs is certainly impressive. However, how many of the 55 other CF head coaches that have higher career winning success rates than Bear also coached at multiple schools and improved their records ? ( Urban Meyer for example). I don't have that answer right now but will research it soon and get back with you. And Bevo, I must say, debating and discussing CF topics like this is so much more enjoyable when one offer factual history and does some research, like you..so thanks. Did you ever answer my question of 'Can you legitimately claim a national FB championship by losing your season ending bowl game? ....which Bryant did twice. You're probably also aware that Bear once lost 8 consecutive bowl games. The history of college football is fascinating. Still so many things I don’t know. And I never find out unless I’m researching for a debate. So, I thank you. As for the question of “National Champs” even when losing a bowl game ? I think they count, yes. Those there the “unofficial rules” used at that time by the AP and UPI services. They were generally accepted at “the standard” for National Titles, although.. as I know you know, there were many others. So many, it became a joke. Remember: at first, Bowl games really were NOT considered “official”. They really were nice little post season exhibitions, just for fun. Of course, football coaches, players and fans started taking them serous, as they became a source for bragging rights. And led to controversy over who the “real” champ was. So, eventually … slowly… the standard changed, and titles were “awarded” after the bowls. But, before we had the BCS and then CFP? The Champ was whoever the AP or UPI/Coaches poll voted for. So yes, they count. Always with a bit of an *, I suppose. But those were the rules at the time.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 17, 2021 5:17:06 GMT
It's been a mythical championship history to say the least. The other divisions decided to go 'real' in the 1970s
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Post by EvilVodka on Oct 17, 2021 12:05:37 GMT
I guess the answer is no
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Post by bluehen on Oct 17, 2021 13:07:41 GMT
Bevo,, Of the 19 FBS level (major) head coaches with higher career winning percentages than Bryant, 12 of them coached at multiple schools, One ( the great Fielding Yost ) coached at 6 !.....and had great winning winning records at all... Bear's great record at 4 places is great, but not unique.
Also, 7 of the major level coaches, with a better winning success rate than Saban, coached at multiple schools
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Post by Bevo on Oct 17, 2021 21:55:26 GMT
Bevo,, Of the 19 FBS level (major) head coaches with higher career winning percentages than Bryant, 12 of them coached at multiple schools, One ( the great Fielding Yost ) coached at 6 !.....and had great winning winning records at all... Bear's great record at 4 places is great, but not unique. Also, 7 of the major level coaches, with a better winning success rate than Saban, coached at multiple schools Which list are you using? A lot of sites I look at don't even LIST Win%, because they know it's not that important. The ones I do find, list ALL coaches... like, all the small schools. I don't think those are comparable. You know Hen, it's not just "coaches who coached at other places"... it's "Coaches who went to LOSING programs, and turned them into winners". Saban coached 4 places. The year before he got to Mich State, they were 0-11. Nick coached em to 6-5-1 in his 1st year. Not a bad turnaround. They stayed close to 50/50 until his 5th year, when they went 9-2. Not great years for a lifetime win %. But, some formative years for a coach, I'm sure. The most fun years I had coaching my kid's teams were the years we were 50/50. That's when I felt "coaching" really mattered. Once I had great players, we were on cruise control.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 17, 2021 23:29:34 GMT
Compare Saban's and Meyer's coaching lineage ( Toledo > Michigan State > LSU > Alabama ) and ( Bowling Green > Utah > Florida > Ohio State ). ....very similar and both guys turned around programs, yet along the way Saban LOST 20.3 % of all the games he coached while Meyer LOST 14.7 % of the games he coached. Saban has been easier to beat than Meyer at this point in time. No way around it.
Look a little harder, Bevo :
https:/tiptop25.com/topcoaches_winpercent.html
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Post by Bevo on Oct 18, 2021 3:15:35 GMT
Compare Saban's and Meyer's coaching lineage ( Toledo > Michigan State > LSU > Alabama ) and ( Bowling Green > Utah > Florida > Ohio State ). ....very similar and both guys turned around programs, yet along the way Saban LOST 20.3 % of all the games he coached while Meyer LOST 14.7 % of the games he coached. Saban has been easier to beat than Meyer at this point in time. No way around it. Look a little harder, Bevo : https:/tiptop25.com/topcoaches_winpercent.html Oh.... I've found SEVERAL. But, I figured... if we're gonna have a debate, we should work off the same list. I see discrepancies between some of them. Probably the result of the idiotic NCAA's penchant for taking wins away from teams in the past... as penalty for transgressions. Thanks!
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Post by Bevo on Oct 18, 2021 3:26:00 GMT
Have to tell you, at first glance... Urban Meyer's success might well be the MOST impressive. The modern era, I believe, is tougher than 80-90 years ago.
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Post by EvilVodka on Oct 18, 2021 3:41:40 GMT
Bevo,, Of the 19 FBS level (major) head coaches with higher career winning percentages than Bryant, 12 of them coached at multiple schools, One ( the great Fielding Yost ) coached at 6 !.....and had great winning winning records at all... Bear's great record at 4 places is great, but not unique. Also, 7 of the major level coaches, with a better winning success rate than Saban, coached at multiple schools Saban is one of the best coaches ever in college football. He's created one of the best modern dynasties ever at Alabama, and kickstarted LSU's run of the past 20 years.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 18, 2021 9:57:31 GMT
Common knowledge, Evil, common knowledge....one of the top dozen greats of all time. This discussion goes deeper than that.
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Post by bluehen on Oct 18, 2021 10:08:38 GMT
Have to tell you, at first glance... Urban Meyer's success might well be the MOST impressive. The modern era, I believe, is tougher than 80-90 years ago. Maybe, but 'tougher' in what ways, IYO Bevo.? The composite WP of all CF teams 80 years ago was.500, just like today and always.
First, second, every glance yields that Meyer has been more difficult to beat, not by a whole lot....and then there are guys more difficult to beat than Meyer! Isn't true CF history fun ?
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Post by Bevo on Oct 18, 2021 15:20:51 GMT
Have to tell you, at first glance... Urban Meyer's success might well be the MOST impressive. The modern era, I believe, is tougher than 80-90 years ago. Maybe, but 'tougher' in what ways, IYO Bevo.? In the ancient times, I think there were still a lot of teams that were just starting up, or didn't really have the resources to be competitive. Today, there are just a LOT MORE well-funded, well run teams. I think the consistency in the competition is greater. We don't as many HUGE blowouts. We definitely don't see as many shutouts. Defenses dominated back then. The rules, and equipment today favor offenses much more than in olden times.
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