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Post by Bevo on Jan 21, 2022 18:31:42 GMT
Dylan?? Are you kidding? He'd be around #121 on my list
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Post by Hero on Jan 21, 2022 19:30:48 GMT
Who is the greatest pop/rock star of all time ? The top 10 according to Rolling Stone magazine...I'm sure influential impact, longevity and innovation played into the rankings. We were at trivia on Wednesday and 2 in the top 10 are in the Rock and Roll and Country Music HOF's - one's pretty easy. There are 12 acts total in both the HOF's but the only other one I remember are Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Chet Atkins and the Everley Brothers. Maybe Brenda Lee and Floyd Cramer. 1. The Beatles 2. Dylan 3. Elvis 4. Rolling Stones 5. Chuck Berry 6. Jimi Hendrix 7. James Brown 8. Little Richard 9. Aretha 10. Ray Charles and the next 90....Michael Jackson checks in at #35 www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-artists-147446/aretha-franklin-3-29954/Dylan at 2 is a look how cool I am vote.
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 21, 2022 20:32:15 GMT
Ok thanks. For the 'out there' correlation to CF coaching and GOATS. Coach Nick Saban is the Elvis, Beatles or MJ...whatever Coach Larry Kehres is Niccolo Paganini
waiting on Hero to say "who?"
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Post by doc on Jan 21, 2022 20:33:07 GMT
Dylan?? Are you kidding? He'd be around #121 on my list I wouldn't have him up that high but he did influence a great number of musicians who followed his lead. If we're talking musicians from Minnesota I'd prefer Prince. Anyway back to Dylan, My Back Pages is one of my favorite songs - there's a clip from Dylan's 30th anniversary show featuring Roger McGuinn, Tom Petty, Neil Young, Eric Clapton, Dylan and George Harrison singing My Back Pages and it's tremendous - although Dylan sounds like Eric Cartman.
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Post by bluehen on Jan 21, 2022 21:29:46 GMT
Ok thanks. For the 'out there' correlation to CF coaching and GOATS. Coach Nick Saban is the Elvis, Beatles or MJ...whatever Coach Larry Kehres is Niccolo Paganini
waiting on Hero to say "who?" That's exactly the point, CPA.....so many of the ones you've never heard of are actually way better ( or at least more difficult to beat in FB) than the popular, famous, hyped names. The all time winning % leaders in the thread post demonstrates that "who are those guys" ?....but they sure are the best at what they do.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 21, 2022 21:31:41 GMT
waiting on Hero to say "who?" That's exactly the point, Bevo.....so many of the ones you've never heard of are actually way better ( or at least more difficult to beat in FB) than the popular, famous, hyped names. The all time winning % leaders in the thread post demonstrates that "who are those guys" ? That was the OTHER ORANGE dude... not me. I ALWAYS know "who"
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Post by bluehen on Jan 21, 2022 21:34:28 GMT
That's exactly the point, Bevo.....so many of the ones you've never heard of are actually way better ( or at least more difficult to beat in FB) than the popular, famous, hyped names. The all time winning % leaders in the thread post demonstrates that "who are those guys" ? That was the OTHER ORANGE dude... not me. I ALWAYS know "who" jeez - my dumbth !!!. Thanks Bevo. Of course you are a 'who' knower
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 22, 2022 1:17:52 GMT
waiting on Hero to say "who?" That's exactly the point, CPA.....so many of the ones you've never heard of are actually way better ( or at least more difficult to beat in FB) than the popular, famous, hyped names. The all time winning % leaders in the thread post demonstrates that "who are those guys" ?....but they sure are the best at what they do. I hear you and understand where you are coming from, but still believe it's intellectually dishonest to compare Saban and Kehres. Raw stats with no context. I dislike the phrase "more difficult to beat" when comparing those guys. But that's just me. I'd say Kehres had a higher win percentage in his classification than Saban does in his...Both have achieved an extraordinary level of success.
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Post by bluehen on Jan 22, 2022 2:00:44 GMT
I hear you too, CPA. "Difficulty to beat" (which obviously I prefer) can be historically & factually documented. "Greatest" is mostly a subjectively derived moniker although it can have factual criteria. Either way, cpa, "both have achieved an extraordinary level of success "...bingo . Common knowledge.
In the untouchable records thread title I submitted Larry's record as the most untouchable in all of CF coaching at any level and believe that. Nick's career has been incredibly great too but there have been a few other HCs at his level that have touched him and even surpassed him as far as winning success. They've been lost a bit to history amongst the 'latest greatest' hype....if that makes any sense.
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Post by doc on Jan 22, 2022 16:37:34 GMT
I hear you too, CPA. "Difficulty to beat" (which obviously I prefer) can be historically & factually documented. "Greatest" is mostly a subjectively derived moniker although it can have factual criteria. Either way, cpa, "both have achieved an extraordinary level of success "...bingo . Common knowledge. In the untouchable records thread title I submitted Larry's record as the most untouchable in all of CF coaching at any level and believe that. Nick's career has been incredibly great too but there have been a few other HCs at his level that have touched him and even surpassed him as far as winning success. They've been lost a bit to history amongst the 'latest greatest' hype....if that makes any sense. I think the guy at Kansas State, Chris Kleiman, is a perfect example. He was nearly unbeatable at North Dakota State, piled up national championships - since going to KSU he's 20-16. While you never say never, I think had Larry Kehres made the jump from D3 to the power 6, or even the group of 5, he'd most likely have met similar results, if that good. First, he wouldn't go to a blue blood - he'd go to a MAC school or a team on KSU's level. They would have fired their coach and in need of rebuilding. And he'd be going against far better coaches. So, in his world (D3) he was the GOAT - not sure it would be the same in higher levels. No shame in that, it's just a different world of football and it wouldn't make him any less of a coach.
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Post by bluehen on Jan 22, 2022 19:08:38 GMT
Kleiman, for sure, at NDSU had much better talent relative to the FCS level while KSU traditionally has been talent starved at the , so called, P5 level. So I don't know. We can only speculate how any coaches would do with all the 'ifs'. My only doubt about Kehres at a top level FBS program would be recruiting....and it's common knowledge that recruiting is 90 % of success at that level. He's had offers to go directly from D3 to FBS (mostly MAC schools) but he was happy at home. He grew up very near the Mt Union campus.....and likely didn't want anything to do with the sleazy world of recruiting.
...and doc, couldn't that speculation work in reverse ? How would a big name P5 HC do at a little , no scholarship, D3 program without massive talent advantages that he was used to at his top level ? Could he be as great with only his coaching ability alone ?
The thread topic is untouchable statistical records. Nothing in all of CF would be as untouchable as the Kehres career record. Would you agree ?
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Post by Bevo on Jan 22, 2022 23:27:18 GMT
TRULY GREAT coaches win, even when they don't have the "best" talent.
It's one thing to consistently win, when you're SUPPOSED to.
It's another thing to be able to take a team, who is NOT all that physically gifted, and still win. Bear did that. We'll never know whether Rockne could or couldn't.
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Post by bluehen on Jan 23, 2022 13:06:21 GMT
We know that Sabam can't win 'BIG' when he doesn't have superior talent and does win ' BIG' when he has superior talent. Just add up his combined record at Toledo /Michigan State/Dolphins where he didn't have superior talent and compare with his record at LSU & Alabama with superior raw talent.
Tol/MSU/Dolphins ) .573 (58-43-1
LSU/Bama ) .846 (226-41)
Big difference between winning 57% of time and 85% of time.......and what accounts for such a difference ?.......no mystery - RAW Talent on hand. That's why I think he's a GROAT candidate but maybe not a GOAT candidate.
No way to even speculate Rockne's raw talent advantages if there was, because no recruiting ratings or stars in his time nor #s of his players going to pro ball. How to measure ?
Raw coaching brilliance might be those that do .....
1) The most with the least
2) The most with the most
3) The least with the least
4) The least with the most
good fun
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Post by Bevo on Jan 23, 2022 17:01:39 GMT
You seriously want to question the talent level at Notre Dame during Rockne's era? The trademark words of John McEnroe come to mind...
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Post by bluehen on Jan 23, 2022 19:58:34 GMT
You seriously want to question the talent level at Notre Dame during Rockne's era? The trademark words of John McEnroe come to mind... I can be serious.....in that how could it be measured ?
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