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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 10, 2016 21:51:07 GMT
aufan: "First of all, 47% aren't "takers". It is pathetic you still use this number"
Do you agree with Obama, when he says that everyone should have some skin in the game?
aufan: "The baby boomers were lucky. Wages rose with productivity increases. A high school graduate could work in a factory and make enough to support a stay at home mom, kids, retirement and a home and be set for life. Now a college graduate has to be saddled with debt (see below*) to be in a worse off position than a baby boomer high school grad."
Yes, baby boomers have been lucky. High school degrees in the early 1960s had market demand somewhat equivalent to today's undergraduate degrees. I went into the military, ending with a year in Vietnam. After I came home, I paid my way through college, cash on the barrel head, with some modest help from the G.I. Bill -- less than $200/month. My apartment was a dump - $60/month. I taught college math for a year before going out for a real job.
I was newly married. The average house today is nearly double the size of the average house back then. Our first home was less than 1,000 square feet, with no air conditioning or central heating. One car, no garage. Our mortgage payment at 12.25% interest was $157/month. Our 21-inch TV was our only luxury. No cable TV, no modern appliances. I left for work before my kids woke up and came back home after they went to bed.
I worked long, hard hours, took lots of risks and worked my way up to, I say with all modesty, a somewhat successful career.
Other than the insane increase in the cost of a college degree, there is no reason why a young person today with similar attributes couldn't achieve or exceed what I accomplished.
aufan: "I'm an engineering graduate with no debt, a good job, minimal living expenses. I have chosen saving money for retirement rather than having children, buying houses and luxuries. If only I were a baby boomer and I wouldn't have to choose, even if I were just a highschool graduate."
I actually feel sorry for you. You have an engineering degree, and choose retirement security over having a family? I can't imagine life without my kids, grandkids and great granddaughter.
The greatest driving force in my life has been insecurity. I left the perfect job for a young man in my early 30s, as assistant administrator of Tampa General Hospital. I was set for life. TGH is a public hospital and I was under the civil service system. I could have coasted into retirement.
Instead, I left TGH to become the president and CEO of a failing privately-owned hospital. With hard work and good fortune, my team and I were able to turn the hospital around into strong profitability. That is when I left, in order to take on an even greater risk, as president and CEO of a startup private company. Again, thanks to a great team, long, long hours and good fortune, we were able to build this company to the point of successfully issuing an IPO. A large conglomerate acquired our fledgling public company for a tidy sum, and I was back on the streets without job prospects - which was exactly where I wanted to be.
aufan: "Wages no longer rise with productivity or profits. The longer this continues, the bigger a problem income inequality gets. How long can the 0.1% earn more than the majority before the majority rebel? I think we've seen this in history before...."
You are such a a whiner. Why does the income of another person bother you a single whit? If you don't like your wages, why don't you figure out how to make yourself more valuable? Why not take some risks along the way? What is stopping you, other than your own negative attitude?
aufan: "*(Note on higher education) Looking at Texas: inflation adjusted tuition rates from 1970 to 2002 shows a 400% increase in instate natural sciences degrees. A further look shows that Tuition jumped another 104% from 2003 to 2013."
Do you know what are the principle causes of the increases in the cost of higher education? Think about it. Hint: they are not your usual cast of villains.
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Post by aufan59 on Feb 11, 2016 0:09:38 GMT
First of all, 47% aren't "takers". It is pathetic you still use this number. The baby boomers were lucky. Wages rose with productivity increases. A high school graduate could work in a factory and make enough to support a stay at home mom, kids, retirement and a home and be set for life. Now a college graduate has to be saddled with debt (see below*) to be in a worse off position than a baby boomer high school grad. I'm an engineering graduate with no debt, a good job, minimal living expenses. I have chosen saving money for retirement rather than having children, buying houses and luxuries. If only I were a baby boomer and I wouldn't have to choose, even if I were just a highschool graduate. Wages no longer rise with productivity or profits. The longer this continues, the bigger a problem income inequality gets. How long can the 0.1% earn more than the majority before the majority rebel? I think we've seen this in history before.... *(Note on higher education) Looking at Texas: inflation adjusted tuition rates from 1970 to 2002 shows a 400% increase in instate natural sciences degrees. A further look shows that Tuition jumped another 104% from 2003 to 2013.
"takers" is a nicer word than "parasite"... I hope the number is lower than that, but... I'm not sure it is.
You have made a CHOICE to not marry, have kids and a house. It is still possible today for a person in your position to have these things, AND save for retirement. People are doing it all around you. Don't blame YOUR choice on society. It sounds like whining.
When I was doing those things.. mortgage rates were 21%. Meanwhile, my bosses were living is HUGE houses, with 3.5% loans. IE: Every generation has challenges to face.
Wages do need to rise... They aren't likely to do so as long as we keep flooding the country with cheap, immigrant labor.. while at the same time, automating many jobs.
The cost of higher education is out of control, and has been for quite a long time. Why do you suppose that is? Could it be: Government has distorted the market by throwing huge amounts of cheap, or even free, money at it? The schools have had NO NEED to control cost. Instead, they're incentivized to spend even more.. to entice prospective students (and the money that comes with them) to choose their school. It's a mess, and it's changing now...
Many of those 47% pay other taxes. They aren't all complete leeches. Regardless, if wages had grown with productivity like they did with the boomer generation, we probably wouldn't have so many people on government support. While I do admit I could save for retirement and afford a wife/kids/house, many college graduates can't. Rent and student loan interest take up the majority of their pay. Many college graduates are worse off than baby boomer high school graduates. These become people the 47%, not because of awful choices, but because wages haven't grown with productivity and the worker is getting squeezed. What irks me is that baby boomers rode a great economy with a thriving middle class. They racked up huge amounts of debt while accumulating guaranteed retirement income and health benefits at the expense of the future generations. But when a small tax increase is proposed to help pay for it, they lose their shit. They blame the people that didn't grow up in the times when a high school diploma and a little effort meant you could live a charmed/secure life.
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Post by Bevo on Feb 11, 2016 3:01:24 GMT
They aren't all complete leeches. Well, there's an endorsement.
You are, perhaps, the biggest crybaby whiner I have ever encountered. If I didn't know other young people, with the same positive attitude I USED to have... you would REALLY depress me.
I fear for you. If you don't seek medical help soon, you will commit suicide before you're 30.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 11, 2016 3:15:10 GMT
aufan: "While I do admit I could save for retirement and afford a wife/kids/house, many college graduates can't." It has always been, and will always be that way. Some are destined to succeed, and others have become successful by improving their value, by taking entrepreneurial risks, and by working hard, long hours. Some chart a course for failure, including high school dropouts, and black history and women's studies majors. You are financially able to marry and have a family, yet you have opted not to do so. You are destined serve out your final years all alone. You might very well become the cantankerous old man that neighborhood kids despise. I just turned 70, and my wife is 34. We took several great vacations last year, and enjoyed time with my kids, grandkids and great granddaughter. aufan: "Rent and student loan interest take up the majority of their pay. Many college graduates are worse off than baby boomer high school graduates. These become people the 47%, not because of awful choices, but because wages haven't grown with productivity and the worker is getting squeezed." You didn't take a stab at my question about why the cost of a college education has skyrocketed. Inversely, many of today's high school graduates are better off than baby boomer college graduates. What does that prove? Most of the freeloading nearly half of the population, a significant percentage of whom didn't graduate from high school and/or are drug addicts, are responsible for their own failures. Pity the poor worker who is getting squeezed, and doesn't have the gumption to improve his value or to risk seeking to move up. My advise to all who are in a rut is to quit whining, do whatever it takes to improve your value, take risks and work harder and longer hours than others. aufan: "What irks me is that baby boomers rode a great economy with a thriving middle class. They racked up huge amounts of debt while accumulating guaranteed retirement income and health benefits at the expense of the future generations. But when a small tax increase is proposed to help pay for it, they lose their shit. They blame the people that didn't grow up in the times when a high school diploma and a little effort meant you could live a charmed/secure life." The standard of living for the middle class after I graduated from college was probably close to that of today's poor. My first job was at the minimum wage of 93 cents/hour. My pay rate when I entered the military was $78/month. After my military service, I lived in a $60/month rathole in order to afford to pay for my college. My wife and I ate dried beans, while the couple upstairs on food stamps were eating steak. I can't imagine who has brainwashed you, but there was no such thing as being able to lead a charmed and secure life for those with a high school diploma in hand and who put forth a little effort. Now, I will concede that you are right on one point. Like my grandparents and parents, I will receive a multiple of benefits compared to what I paid into Social Security and Medicare. Social Security is the classic Ponzi Scheme. And, like all Ponzi Schemes, it is destined to collapse -- very likely on you and others of your generation. Social Security was a construct of liberal Democrats. It continues on its course to doom because of liberal Democrats. Social Security will continue its inevitable spiral into insolvency because your generation continues to reject making the tough choices to prevent its collapse. There was an opportunity in the early 1990s to give workers the right to invest and manage their own Social Security payments. The privatization effort failed -- because of the opposition of liberal Democrats, even though these 3 Texas counties have conclusively proved that privatization works: www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/05/12/how-three-texas-counties-created-personal-social-security-accounts-and-prospered/#556e343e753c
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Post by Bevo on Feb 11, 2016 3:33:49 GMT
FHF is getting better at "quoting"... \
I guess, you CAN teach an Old Dog, new tricks!
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 11, 2016 3:40:29 GMT
Lol.
BTW, thanks for not using "old fart" or "old coot".
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Post by aufan59 on Feb 11, 2016 4:28:02 GMT
They aren't all complete leeches. Well, there's an endorsement.
You are, perhaps, the biggest crybaby whiner I have ever encountered. If I didn't know other young people, with the same positive attitude I USED to have... you would REALLY depress me.
I fear for you. If you don't seek medical help soon, you will commit suicide before you're 30.
I am happy with my position in life, but I feel sorry for my peers who are worse off with a college degree than baby boomers with a high school education. What gets me is you are complaining about leeches, when you are a part of the leech generation: Baby boomers will gain more benefits from taxes than they paid in. Hundreds of billions of dollars in net benefits: And when someone suggests that taxes get raised to pay for the baby boomer leeching, baby boomers like you get up in arms and whine about the 47%! At least Florida Herd Fan admits that he is a leech. Maybe one day when your senility takes over and you are candidly honest with yourself, you will admit the same.
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Post by EvilVodka on Feb 11, 2016 14:35:17 GMT
Well, there's an endorsement.
You are, perhaps, the biggest crybaby whiner I have ever encountered. If I didn't know other young people, with the same positive attitude I USED to have... you would REALLY depress me.
I fear for you. If you don't seek medical help soon, you will commit suicide before you're 30.
I am happy with my position in life, but I feel sorry for my peers who are worse off with a college degree than baby boomers with a high school education. What gets me is you are complaining about leeches, when you are a part of the leech generation: Baby boomers will gain more benefits from taxes than they paid in. Hundreds of billions of dollars in net benefits: And when someone suggests that taxes get raised to pay for the baby boomer leeching, baby boomers like you get up in arms and whine about the 47%! At least Florida Herd Fan admits that he is a leech. Maybe one day when your senility takes over and you are candidly honest with yourself, you will admit the same. haha, they don't like to hear that.... It's not their fault...it's poor people, and younger hipster people.... The left-right paradigm in politics is a big hangover from the 60s....no one is satisfied with govt, but that's who's been running the country....baby boomers
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Post by EvilVodka on Feb 11, 2016 14:45:47 GMT
Now, I will concede that you are right on one point. Like my grandparents and parents, I will receive a multiple of benefits compared to what I paid into Social Security and Medicare. Social Security is the classic Ponzi Scheme. And, like all Ponzi Schemes, it is destined to collapse -- very likely on you and others of your generation. Social Security was a construct of liberal Democrats. It continues on its course to doom because of liberal Democrats. Social Security will continue its inevitable spiral into insolvency because your generation continues to reject making the tough choices to prevent its collapse. There was an opportunity in the early 1990s to give workers the right to invest and manage their own Social Security payments. The privatization effort failed -- because of the opposition of liberal Democrats, even though these 3 Texas counties have conclusively proved that privatization works: www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/05/12/how-three-texas-counties-created-personal-social-security-accounts-and-prospered/#556e343e753cso young people are automatically assumed to be liberal democrats? Yes of course, blame the young people. Good strategy....young people and poor people are ruining the country
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Post by Bevo on Feb 11, 2016 15:02:43 GMT
What gets me is you are complaining about leeches, when you are a part of the leech generation: And when someone suggests that taxes get raised to pay for the baby boomer leeching, baby boomers like you get up in arms and whine about the 47%! At least Florida Herd Fan admits that he is a leech. Maybe one day when your senility takes over and you are candidly honest with yourself, you will admit the same.
LOL I'm not reaping any of those benefits just yet... still paying in. All of my adult life, I have been advocating for someone to FIX this very problem you've shown. It's an unsustainable LIE told over and over again. I supported Reagan when he raised taxes to help sustain Social Security. I opposed W Bush when he added to the problem by adding drugs to Medicare. I support W's effort to transition SS to a private investment account. That, was a great idea.... expensive in the short run, but... the best overall fix. Democrats beat him over the head for even daring to think about such a thing.
I'm not sure I'll get back all the money I've paid in. Maybe... if I live long enough to get Medicare. I doubt it. Most projections I've seen show a NEGATIVE rate of return expected for me... But, I'll tell you one thing: If I DO get on the money train, I will be the biggest Democrat/parasite supporter you ever saw. I'll vote for anyone who will keep my checks coming, and the rest of you can just suck it up... Like I had to do.
(That's fun to say... but, reality is... I'll continue voting for what I think is in the best interest of the country. That's just what I do...)
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 11, 2016 15:13:01 GMT
As usual, you miss the point, aufan. Or, perhaps you are in denial.
YOUR GENERATION is the reason I receive overly-generous Social Security benefits. YOUR GENERATION has demanded that NO changes be made to Social Security. YOUR GENERATION has demanded NO privatization of Social Security. YOUR GENERATION has demanded that the monies they are paying into Social Security be sent directly to MY GENERATION, instead of going to a personal 401k-type fund that each member of YOUR GENERATION, not the government, would control.
As long as YOUR GENERATION continues to demand that their money paid into Social Security go directly to MY GENERATION, then MY GENERATION will continue to graciously accept it. It is the price YOUR GENERATION is paying, and should continue to pay for BEING STUPID. Younger generations outnumber baby boomers several times over. Yet, younger generations are allowing MY GENERATION to run the country.
Don't get me wrong. My child bride and I very much appreciate your paying for our wonderful vacations. After I depart this earth, YOUR GENERATION will continue to pay for my wife's widows benefits, because that is what YOUR GENERATION wants.
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Post by GatorGrad on Feb 11, 2016 16:36:56 GMT
I'm 35...which generation am I in?
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Post by Bevo on Feb 11, 2016 16:44:54 GMT
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Post by EvilVodka on Feb 11, 2016 16:57:11 GMT
I'm 35...which generation am I in? I'm 39....I think we're technically the bottom-half of Generation X We're squeezed in-between the horrible Baby Boomers and obnoxious Millennials
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Feb 11, 2016 18:11:11 GMT
Anyone below the age of 70 is a member of the younger generation.
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