|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 30, 2023 2:55:07 GMT
....sooo, simple dumb question : In all these terrible 'natural' disasters on God's Earth that he created and controls that kill innocent people and lots of God's children that he created and loves ( and that go to Sunday school) who is most to blame, IYO GG ? a) Mankind (created by God) ? b) Mother Nature, science and the laws of physics ? c) The Christian all powerful deity....God himself, herself, itself ?? ( does God have a gender ? ) ? d) Some underworld ,evil, anti-God spirit or force, like a devil or something ? e) something else or a combo of a-d ? God gives humans a choice to follow Him or reject Him. Rejecting God leads to sin which has many consequences in this world including death, pain, and suffering. Your sin has consequences and mine does as well. All sin separates us from God. This is why we needed a savior. This is why God sent Jesus to live a sinless life, die for our sins even though He did nothing wrong, and be raised from the dead…proving once and for all that He was who He claimed to be. Perhaps these short videos are helpful and able to explain some of this better than I am able. youtu.be/yLK9ZR35r8wyoutu.be/cR_WYcqcEpM
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 29, 2023 20:58:24 GMT
Big Ten is not interested in Florida State. Assuming the GoR issues can resolved (likely by dissolution of the ACC), the top targets (after Notre Dame) are UNC and UVA. I suspect, by the time this is over (maybe a year from now), the Big Ten will have added UNC, UVA, Notre Dame, Stanford, Cal, and Miami (likely for the 2026 season). That makes 22 for a nice 6/6/6/3 schedule. I would not be surprised to see the SEC add NCSU and VPI (to counter UNC and UVA) along with four in-state rivals (FSU, Clemson, GIT, and Louisville) to ease the transition to a nine-game schedule. The Big 12 could very easily absorb Duke, Syracuse, and Pitt (think hoops plus WVU/Pitt). That only leaves Wake Forest and Boston College. Why would the Big Ten want Miami over FSU? Just because Miami is now AAU? FSU is a bigger overall TV draw / brand with more alums, isn't quite as far away, and has an actual on-campus stadium with an awesome atmosphere...unlike Miami who hasn't won even a conference title in who knows how long (have they ever even qualified for the ACC CG?) And plays in an off-campus stadium sometimes with just 30K fans and zero atmosphere.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 29, 2023 20:47:56 GMT
God violently kills young children ( even from God accepting / worshiping families ) because they might grow up to be mass murderers .....or kill thousands with deadly viruses I have to admit, GG, I don't 'get' a lot of this stuff
God did not kill young children. When God created man, initially nobody had to die ever. We basically had Heaven on earth. Unfortunately mankind has consistently rejected God and chosen to go about things on their own. In our pride and arrogance we think we know better than God, are smarter than God, and are more loving than God. We choose to reject God's truths and sin. He gives us free will to do that, otherwise we would not be human, but there are consequences for sin which has direct and indirect effects on all of us. King David's sin with Bathsheba had a ripple effect that affected her husband Uriah (murdered), David's unborn child (died), the rest of David's family, the entire nation of Israel, as well as Israel's enemies. We also must be careful when we say "from God worshiping families." An individual's salvation has nothing to do with which family they were born into. Each of us has the opportunity to follow God or reject God, regardless of where we were born, who our parents were, etc. Only God knows the heart. There are many hypocrites claiming to be followers of Christ who are complete frauds - in it for other reasons whether it be money, position, power, fame, etc. There are probably more "Christian" hypocrites in the world, especially in our country, than actual genuine followers of Christ. There is zero chance that someone filled with the actual Spirit of Christ would molest and murder a child. There was no group that Jesus was more critical of during His life on earth than the Pharisees. They were intelligent, respected, wealthy, and seemingly righteous followers of God. But they were really just hypocrites in it for other reasons and did not really love God. No different than today with a lot of the "pastors" we see running large churches and religious organizations. I do look forward to one day being in Heaven with God and all of His people. God in His wisdom and grace is giving every soul on earth the opportunity to choose between a life with Him or a life without Him. In Heaven, sin will no longer exist and thus there will be no more pain, suffering, hypocrites, or anything else that results from sin. I look forward to that day!
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 29, 2023 15:01:35 GMT
You are making the mistake of assuming that you always know what is best for all of mankind in all scenarios. We do not have the knowledge of God, nor do we see the big picture that He sees. We generally look at things from our own sinful, selfish, and earthly perspective. The first step in finding God is admitting that we do not have all of the answers, nor are we even close to God's knowledge of the universe. But when we put our trust in God, He causes all things to work together for good (Romans 8:28.) But we have to choose to trust in Him to claim that promise! God is good and created us with the freedom to choose good. He didn't create evil...evil is simply the absence of good. We indeed have the ability to reject God's goodness. He didn't create evil, but he allowed it to happen via our choice. Had God not allowed this choice, we would all be serving Him out of obligation or would basically be robots. God created humans and gave us free will so that we could genuinely choose whether or not we wanted to be with Him, serve with Him, and enjoy His amazing promises not only on this earth but for eternity. So how do we enjoy this good that he gives us freedom to choose (instead of needing to fear the evil that man's sin brings into the world?) Again, Romans 8:28...an amazing passage that I have found to be 100% true in my life and others around me who have put their trust in Christ: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." The alternative is we can reject God and go about this world (and eternity) separated from God and His love. Without His protection or His promises. Living in fear of the evil that man's sin brings about.
I know that an 8 year old getting sexually assaulted and murdered by her church leader is not best for mankind. A all powerful God who can't create a universe without that is not all powerful. He is evil and disgusting.
You said it yourself with your mental gymnastics, he didn't create evil, but he allowed it to happen. Any all powerful, all knowing creator of the universe that allows this, or other such atrocities, is an evil piece of shit not worthy of belief, much less worship.
Suggesting that we should worship a deity who allowed such evil, is like supporting a ruthless dictator who makes millions suffer, because he makes your life better. It is even worse, because God was responsible for every act from every ruthless dictator.
When you are proselytizing, you are advocating that we worship a deity that allowed for extreme evil. Feel free to do that, and sugar coat it with your mental gymnastics, but I will pass.
You seem confident in your own wisdom of what is best for mankind. While the timing of the death of a child is indeed tragic and hard for us as humans to understand, what if that child would have grown up to cause 10x more pain and suffering to others? What if the child would have gone on to commit mass murder or invent a virus that would kill thousands of people? The truth is we have no idea. Also, He actually did create a world that was perfect. Adam and Eve lived in it. But man rejected Him by sinning and doing the one thing God asked them NOT to do. No different than today where we reject God every day and sin and thus we have to live in a sinful world and everything that sin and a Godless society brings with it. But again, He gives us a choice. The ultimate freedom to choose. Otherwise we would just be robots incapable of understanding love or actually loving anyone else. Sin is the reason we have suffering and death. All of a result of our rebellion against God (our choice.) Thankfully God has provided an escape from sin and death via Jesus Christ. That's why He suffered and died. That's why He rose from the dead. Job suffered as much as any man in the history of the world. One may read his story and think "wow, what an awful God he serves." But God was doing a work and ultimately saving Job eternally. I doubt Job in Heaven is cursing God for the suffering He endured in this short life now that he sees the big picture.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 28, 2023 18:19:06 GMT
So, you are 100% certain that human beings on Earth are the highest form of intelligence in the entire universe?
Bevo,
huh ?....you're asking that question like I said or implied something like that.
And GG, please put in a good word for me ( if you think I deserve it ) next time you talk to GOD and don't know if he's a sports fan or cares anything about big time college sports but ,if so, please ask if he could do anything about this unfortunate direction our favorite sport is going. Lots of athletes thank him for victories so I suspect he's tuned in.
None of us "deserve it" - we are all sinners...that's why we need God's grace and forgiveness in the first place. Anyways, I'll let ya'll get back to your regularly scheduled political debates. Have a blessed rest of the summer!
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 28, 2023 16:03:46 GMT
If the PAC could just swap Colorado for SDSU, they could survive like that as a 10 team conference for at least one more TV deal.
But if Oregon and Washington leave, it's all over.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 28, 2023 16:01:31 GMT
My PAC school predictions (long-term):
Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah to the Big 12.
Oregon, Washington, and maybe Stanford and Cal to the Big Ten...joining USC and UCLA in a western division/pod.
Washington State and Oregon State leftover to rebuild / merge with MWC schools...or simply join the MWC themselves.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 28, 2023 13:31:07 GMT
All the religions of mankind developed as primitive, developing human beings ( modern man did not pop out of some garden) did not have the scientific knowledge to explain the natural phenomena they were seeing and experiencing, thus attributed these things to supernatural forces. Simple as that, men. Not true actually. We did not come from nothing or by chance. There is one true God who created you and loves you and wants to have a relationship with you.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 28, 2023 3:13:44 GMT
This is not mental gymnastics. Just 100 pct truth. What specific evil atrocities are you referring to which you blame God for? Uh… all of them… That’s part of being the all knowing and all powerful creator of the universe, He is solely responsible for all of the awful things in the world. If He is not responsible, then He is not all knowing and all powerful. If He is responsible, then he is not worthy of respect, much less worship. You are making the mistake of assuming that you always know what is best for all of mankind in all scenarios. We do not have the knowledge of God, nor do we see the big picture that He sees. We generally look at things from our own sinful, selfish, and earthly perspective. The first step in finding God is admitting that we do not have all of the answers, nor are we even close to God's knowledge of the universe. But when we put our trust in God, He causes all things to work together for good (Romans 8:28.) But we have to choose to trust in Him to claim that promise! God is good and created us with the freedom to choose good. He didn't create evil...evil is simply the absence of good. We indeed have the ability to reject God's goodness. He didn't create evil, but he allowed it to happen via our choice. Had God not allowed this choice, we would all be serving Him out of obligation or would basically be robots. God created humans and gave us free will so that we could genuinely choose whether or not we wanted to be with Him, serve with Him, and enjoy His amazing promises not only on this earth but for eternity. So how do we enjoy this good that he gives us freedom to choose (instead of needing to fear the evil that man's sin brings into the world?) Again, Romans 8:28...an amazing passage that I have found to be 100% true in my life and others around me who have put their trust in Christ: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." The alternative is we can reject God and go about this world (and eternity) separated from God and His love. Without His protection or His promises. Living in fear of the evil that man's sin brings about.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 27, 2023 23:46:39 GMT
The talk is heating up again about Colorado leaving the Big XII
Apparently, Colorado is having alot of meetings this week
I don't really blame them. The PAC 12 leadership seems lost and inept. They've been relying on academic snobbery for years, and that fell apart when UCLA and USC left.
The threat of Oregon and Washington leaving at any time certainly doesn't help. And of course, the lack of a new media deal has really stunted any positive vibes for the conference.
If Colorado can get more $$$ and better exposure in the Big XII, then why not leave?
What will this trigger? Arizona leaving with them? Arizona State? The Big 10 going ahead and adding Oregon and Washington? Sources have been saying that the Big 10 is "waiting for the conference to implode".
A Colorado defection means things will get ugly.
Cool, so a conference will have teams from Rutgers and Maryland, down to Florida, and then stretching west to LA? Perhaps we can all join the Big Ten…and then come full circle and reorganize into smaller 10-team regional conferences? I used to find realignment fun and interesting but now we have jumped the shark. This is lunacy.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 27, 2023 23:38:37 GMT
You replied to my comment about not putting faith in politicians with (1) a Bible verse taken out of context and then (2) my own original statement completely misrepresented. When I pointed these things out, you do not acknowledge it in any way. Not even a "fair enough" or "my bad." You just jump to unrelated topics like rape and torture and claim I am "tapping out." The fact that you say I am tapping out by not desiring to dialogue under these circumstances further shows what your intentions are and how you view this discussion. You are just trying to win an internet argument. If you were confident and secure enough in your own beliefs, you wouldn't feel the need to always reply or have the last word. If someone posted about the Easter Bunny being real I would chuckle and move on and not even waste my time replying. Or perhaps deep down inside you are wondering if perhaps you are wrong about God? If so, you are respectfully going about it the wrong way. There is no "evidence" or argument I can possibly make that would "convince" anyone to come to Christ. That's not how this faith works and that's not what I'm going to waste time trying to do. The Israelites literally watched God deliver them from slavery in Egypt, part the Red Sea, and take care of them in the dessert. But a few years later were grumbling and cursing God. Others witnessed the miracles of Jesus in person...even watched Him raise someone from the dead...but still chose not to believe and follow Christ. Most were either too prideful to admit they were initially wrong about Him or simply were not willing to give up their own earthly desires in order to follow Him. This is not some code that requires cracking. It is a heart issue. You first have to reach a point of complete humbleness, understand what sin is and how often we do it, why then we even are in need of a Savior, and seek God with a sincere heart. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you under these circumstances and just watch what happens. When you repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you and take control of your life, His Spirit literally is inside you and guides you and even more truths are revealed. There are things about God and scripture that will not make any sense unless you first give your life to the God of the universe. Unfortunately for so many of us, pride gets in the way and keeps us from seeking God sincerely. And yes, God is all knowing and sovereign over all things. He allowed King Cyrus to be in power as much as He allowed Trump or Biden to become president. Mankind is also sinful and moral evil exists in this imperfect world. It is true that God allows certain things to happen on this earth for this period of time, a very small window of time within the timeline of eternity. Thankfully this won't always be the case and in Heaven there will be no pain and no suffering. The problem is most are viewing everything from an earthly perspective instead of an eternal perspective so something that we perceive as "horrible" may have been necessary for someone to come to Christ and enter into eternal life which is the single best thing that could ever happen to anyone, ever. Jesus himself being a prime example, dying a horrible excruciating death by being nailed and hung on a cross despite being sinless and blameless and committing no crimes. God didn't have to do that for us but He did to save us. That kind of love is worthy of my love for Him. Once we actually comprehend and understand the love that God has for us, everything changes. We trust and have faith in Him. Scripture is illuminated. Your heart and desires change. You understand that God's boundaries are not meant to punish or hold us back, but for our own protection and our own good to live a peaceful / joyful life. Your faith grows even more, even when tough times or calamity enter our lives. Knowing that God is doing a work that is for our long-term best gives peace and joy that this world cannot take away. Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. This is the mental gymnastics I'm talking about.
To be fair, I'm not doubting my position. Even if God/Jesus/etc. visited me personally and proved their existence to me directly, I wouldn't worship them. Why would I worship someone or something that created so many evil atrocities?
You answer that question, because you think they are going to give you Heaven. Disgusting, and an awful mindset to spread. Have faith in and worship evil because you get something out of it?
This is not mental gymnastics. Just 100 pct truth. What specific evil atrocities are you referring to which you blame God for? I don’t worship God because I think it will get me into Heaven. If that’s the one and only reason someone comes to Christ, there’s a good chance they haven’t made a genuine decision to follow Christ and don’t have an accurate understanding of The Gospel. You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions about me and what a real relationship with Christ actually means. Just like when you misrepresented my earlier post. I’m sorry that you have these feelings towards God. Perhaps you grew up around so many religious hypocrites that it has affected your views on this. But I promise you God is real, He loves you, and if you humble yourself and seek Him sincerely, He will find you.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 27, 2023 18:37:42 GMT
Respectfully, like with that Bible verse yesterday you are either mis-reading, mis-understanding, or purposely taking something out of context. I did not say “I” was disappointed in the politicians. I said they will leave “you” disappointed IF you put your faith or trust in them. I said to put your faith in Jesus and you will not be disappointed. That is who my faith is in, not politicians. I can see you still are obsessed with winning arguments on the internet and “gotcha” moments rather than honest dialogue. I hope it is fulfilling for you but I’m not interested in it. If you are really seeking truth, and are open to the possibility that God really does exist and is who He says He is, let me know. God loves you, aufan. This is not a gotcha moment, I’m only trying to get understanding on this, on the reason why I’m an atheist. You attribute everything to God, even acts we find bad, because we humans don’t understand. It is not surprising you tap out when asked if rape and torture are God’s will. This argument is what creates atheists, and it is best to not think about that if you are religious. Taking this to its logical conclusions, then everything is God’s will, including Biden being president, or the 8 year old girl who was murdered by a church leader, or the countless number of absolutely horrible things that have happened to people. Either God is all knowing, all powerful creator of the universe and created these atrocities, or he is not. You must use Olympic levels of mental gymnastics to love a God who created evil. You replied to my comment about not putting faith in politicians with (1) a Bible verse taken out of context and then (2) my own original statement completely misrepresented. When I pointed these things out, you do not acknowledge it in any way. Not even a "fair enough" or "my bad." You just jump to unrelated topics like rape and torture and claim I am "tapping out." The fact that you say I am tapping out by not desiring to dialogue under these circumstances further shows what your intentions are and how you view this discussion. You are just trying to win an internet argument. If you were confident and secure enough in your own beliefs, you wouldn't feel the need to always reply or have the last word. If someone posted about the Easter Bunny being real I would chuckle and move on and not even waste my time replying. Or perhaps deep down inside you are wondering if perhaps you are wrong about God? If so, you are respectfully going about it the wrong way. There is no "evidence" or argument I can possibly make that would "convince" anyone to come to Christ. That's not how this faith works and that's not what I'm going to waste time trying to do. The Israelites literally watched God deliver them from slavery in Egypt, part the Red Sea, and take care of them in the dessert. But a few years later were grumbling and cursing God. Others witnessed the miracles of Jesus in person...even watched Him raise someone from the dead...but still chose not to believe and follow Christ. Most were either too prideful to admit they were initially wrong about Him or simply were not willing to give up their own earthly desires in order to follow Him. This is not some code that requires cracking. It is a heart issue. You first have to reach a point of complete humbleness, understand what sin is and how often we do it, why then we even are in need of a Savior, and seek God with a sincere heart. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you under these circumstances and just watch what happens. When you repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you and take control of your life, His Spirit literally is inside you and guides you and even more truths are revealed. There are things about God and scripture that will not make any sense unless you first give your life to the God of the universe. Unfortunately for so many of us, pride gets in the way and keeps us from seeking God sincerely. And yes, God is all knowing and sovereign over all things. He allowed King Cyrus to be in power as much as He allowed Trump or Biden to become president. Mankind is also sinful and moral evil exists in this imperfect world. It is true that God allows certain things to happen on this earth for this period of time, a very small window of time within the timeline of eternity. Thankfully this won't always be the case and in Heaven there will be no pain and no suffering. The problem is most are viewing everything from an earthly perspective instead of an eternal perspective so something that we perceive as "horrible" may have been necessary for someone to come to Christ and enter into eternal life which is the single best thing that could ever happen to anyone, ever. Jesus himself being a prime example, dying a horrible excruciating death by being nailed and hung on a cross despite being sinless and blameless and committing no crimes. God didn't have to do that for us but He did to save us. That kind of love is worthy of my love for Him. Once we actually comprehend and understand the love that God has for us, everything changes. We trust and have faith in Him. Scripture is illuminated. Your heart and desires change. You understand that God's boundaries are not meant to punish or hold us back, but for our own protection and our own good to live a peaceful / joyful life. Your faith grows even more, even when tough times or calamity enter our lives. Knowing that God is doing a work that is for our long-term best gives peace and joy that this world cannot take away. Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 27, 2023 14:03:58 GMT
What other times? Who are we as humans to know what is truly best for any individual’s soul? The mistake we make is assuming that our knowledge is on par or better than God’s. The first step in finding The Lord is ditching our own pride and humbling ourselves to the fact that in comparison to God, we are sinners who know absolutely nothing. Only God can judge the thoughts and intentions and hearts of mankind. Also not sure what you meant about me being disappointed by His work?
You said "sometimes" bad things are actually good, needed, etc. I'm asking about the other times, like rapes, murders, torture, terrorist acts, etc.
You said you were disappointed in the politicians. Politicians are are His work. We can only assume Biden being elected was God's will.
Respectfully, like with that Bible verse yesterday you are either mis-reading, mis-understanding, or purposely taking something out of context. I did not say “I” was disappointed in the politicians. I said they will leave “you” disappointed IF you put your faith or trust in them. I said to put your faith in Jesus and you will not be disappointed. That is who my faith is in, not politicians. I can see you still are obsessed with winning arguments on the internet and “gotcha” moments rather than honest dialogue. I hope it is fulfilling for you but I’m not interested in it. If you are really seeking truth, and are open to the possibility that God really does exist and is who He says He is, let me know. God loves you, aufan.
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 27, 2023 4:12:44 GMT
I know it goes against common wisdom of man, but sometimes "bad times" or "trouble" for someone is actually...OK? Sometimes it is deserved. Sometimes it is needed for correction. Sometimes God uses it to get our attention that we may call on Him and put our faith and trust in Him before it's too late. God is a good and loving God and desires for all of us receive Him. But we have to seek Him with a sincere heart. Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. What about the other times when it not actually... OK? Nor deserved? Nor needed for correction?
What other times? Who are we as humans to know what is truly best for any individual’s soul? The mistake we make is assuming that our knowledge is on par or better than God’s. The first step in finding The Lord is ditching our own pride and humbling ourselves to the fact that in comparison to God, we are sinners who know absolutely nothing. Only God can judge the thoughts and intentions and hearts of mankind. Also not sure what you meant about me being disappointed by His work?
|
|
|
Post by GatorGrad on Jul 26, 2023 22:35:16 GMT
If you truly have an open heart and are seeking truth, then I encourage you to study the context of that passage in Isaiah, prophesying about King Cyrus (amazingly, before he was even born.) And the actual Hebrew translation. Evil in that passage is not a moral evil. The Hebrew word "Ra" also refers to that which causes harm or an event resulting in great loss...hardship or distress. The older King James translation uses "evil" but most other translations use words like Calamity, Disaster, Woe, Bad Times, Troubles, etc in that verse...not the word evil. It could also refer to something "bad" that happens to someone even if it is deserved. For example if someone commits a crime and goes to jail, going to jail is certainly a time of trouble / distress for that person but it isn't morally evil to send them to jail as a punishment. Then in the context of the passage, King Cyrus would follow pagan false gods but the one true God is saying that He (God) will still use Him to accomplish His plan...it won't be his pagan false gods. He will use Cyrus to bring the Israelites back out of captivity and even rebuild their temple. He is still sovereign over everything, even bad rulers. He allowed Israel to be in captivity (both to Egypt and again to Babylon) - ruled over by evil leadership...because they turned away from God after all that God had done for them...then graciously saved them and brought them out. Those who do not know the heart of God might think that God is mean for allowing His people to be in captivity at all. Those who do would see the big picture - that God was ultimately doing good and trying to spiritually save them. A parent might be called "mean" by their young child for not allowing them to play in the street. The parent knows that is dangerous and a car could hit the child and is ultimately trying to protect the child. If the child then still decides to play in the street when the parent turns their back, the parent would probably discipline the child for disobeying. The child might perceive the correction as mean, but ultimately the parent is doing it for their long-term good. Romans 10:11-13 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Thank you for clarifying that god did not create "evil", but he created "Calamity, Disaster, Woe, Bad Times, Trouble, etc." My point still remains. As you said in your thread, you are clearly disappointed in His work.
I know it goes against common wisdom of man, but sometimes "bad times" or "trouble" for someone is actually...OK? Sometimes it is deserved. Sometimes it is needed for correction. Sometimes God uses it to get our attention that we may call on Him and put our faith and trust in Him before it's too late. God is a good and loving God and desires for all of us receive Him. But we have to seek Him with a sincere heart. Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
|
|