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Post by EvilVodka on Jul 16, 2019 15:04:08 GMT
It's just a shame this team did not make the playoffs. After watching the Peach Bowl again, they just annihilate Ole Miss
I don't know if they would have beaten Ohio State, because Ezekial Elliot was completely underrated, but I feel they were playing at a higher level than Oregon and FSU.
The committee interjected and made up the conference championship garbage, which they threw out and disregarded in later years.
While ESPN was busy splitting hairs between TCU and Ohio State, they had no idea that these were the two best teams
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Post by ajbuckeye on Jul 16, 2019 16:50:56 GMT
I could not agree with you more on this one. This was a team that I think was 3rd in the CFP rankings going into championship week. They win their last game that weekend by 50+ points and somehow drop to 6. Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside.
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Post by doc on Jul 16, 2019 18:30:00 GMT
The conference tie between Baylor and TCU was the sticking point, I believe. TCU lost to Baylor so I think it came down to Ohio State and the Bears. OSU destroyed Wisconsin with a backup QB and that was the impetus for moving them past the 2 Big XII schools. It was a tough situation, one that Ohio State has been on the losing end the past couple years. I think they just make up rules as they go along but I'd have a hard time arguing against the teams that beat out the Buckeyes the past 2 years. I think had they played Oklahoma the score would have been 72-71 - neither team evoked fear on defense. I would have been pissed if Georgia went over them but that didn't happen.
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Post by Bevo on Jul 16, 2019 18:33:25 GMT
Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside. Very little doubt? Really? You should have a LOT of doubt. Being TCU had very little to do with it.
I can't cut and paste on this site for some reason, from behind my work firewall... but, google "Big 12 Crowns Two Champions".... And, you'll find the reason why the CFP avoided ALL Big 12 teams that year.
TCU was NOT the legitimate Champion of the Big 12. They shouldn't have been Co-Champs either. The CFP Committee, rightfully, chose to avoid the shit-show that the Big 12 created.
TCU was clearly the BEST TEAM in the Big 12 that year. Maybe, the best in the country. But, they got the most royal of referee screw jobs that you will ever see.... blowing a 28 point 4th quarter lead playing @ Baylor. Let that sink in a minute.... they were LEADING by 28 points... in the 4th quarter... and, somehow lost.
That loss killed them... not the Horned Frog on the helmet.
It was gut-wrenching. Especially because it was largely the result of buffoonish reffing.
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Post by EvilVodka on Jul 16, 2019 18:33:36 GMT
I could not agree with you more on this one. This was a team that I think was 3rd in the CFP rankings going into championship week. They win their last game that weekend by 50+ points and somehow drop to 6. Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside. I don't know why Oregon was such a sure bet with eveyone. Ohio State was obviously better and I think TCU was better FSU was kind of a problem too. They definitely were not the 2013 version. But they were undefeated and had to be included.
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Post by EvilVodka on Jul 16, 2019 18:46:14 GMT
The conference tie between Baylor and TCU was the sticking point, I believe. TCU lost to Baylor so I think it came down to Ohio State and the Bears. OSU destroyed Wisconsin with a backup QB and that was the impetus for moving them past the 2 Big XII schools. It was a tough situation, one that Ohio State has been on the losing end the past couple years. I think they just make up rules as they go along but I'd have a hard time arguing against the teams that beat out the Buckeyes the past 2 years. I think had they played Oklahoma the score would have been 72-71 - neither team evoked fear on defense. I would have been pissed if Georgia went over them but that didn't happen. Even with the loss to Baylor, anyone that watched TCU knew they were playing at a high level. just 3 years later, Alabama got the benefit of the doubt and won the whole thing. The team that probably should have been out was Oregon. Florida State was a weird situation...how do you leave out an undefeated defending National Champ? If they were left out, I could see FSU beating their opponent in a bowl and setting up conditions for a split NC
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Post by EvilVodka on Jul 16, 2019 18:54:07 GMT
Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside. Very little doubt? Really? You should have a LOT of doubt. Being TCU had very little to do with it.
I can't cut and paste on this site for some reason, from behind my work firewall... but, google "Big 12 Crowns Two Champions".... And, you'll find the reason why the CFP avoided ALL Big 12 teams that year.
TCU was NOT the legitimate Champion of the Big 12. They shouldn't have been Co-Champs either. The CFP Committee, rightfully, chose to avoid the shit-show that the Big 12 created.
TCU was clearly the BEST TEAM in the Big 12 that year. Maybe, the best in the country. But, they got the most royal of referee screw jobs that you will ever see.... blowing a 28 point 4th quarter lead playing @ Baylor. Let that sink in a minute.... they were LEADING by 28 points... in the 4th quarter... and, somehow lost.
That loss killed them... not the Horned Frog on the helmet.
It was gut-wrenching. Especially because it was largely the result of buffoonish reffing.
It was just a complete flub by the committee The odd man out should have been Oregon...or maybe we just need 8 teams, idk
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Post by Bevo on Jul 16, 2019 19:17:21 GMT
What the committee did to TCU fans that year was cruel. Putting them at #3 gave them hope... even, confidence. The Big 12 needed a CCG to give them a chance to avenge the bogus loss to Baylor.
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Post by bluehen on Jul 17, 2019 1:52:27 GMT
I could not agree with you more on this one. This was a team that I think was 3rd in the CFP rankings going into championship week. They win their last game that weekend by 50+ points and somehow drop to 6. Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside. I don't know why Oregon was such a sure bet with eveyone. Ohio State was obviously better and I think TCU was better FSU was kind of a problem too. They definitely were not the 2013 version. But they were undefeated and had to be included. Just one comment - 'BINGO" Evil
The Dr. Pepper Invitational is first and foremost show business.
btw, there is only one way to really find out who is better. Let 'em play ! No voting. No guessing
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Post by ajbuckeye on Jul 17, 2019 17:35:18 GMT
Very little doubt in my mind that having TCU on there helmets was a big reason they were left on the outside. Very little doubt? Really? You should have a LOT of doubt. Being TCU had very little to do with it.
I can't cut and paste on this site for some reason, from behind my work firewall... but, google "Big 12 Crowns Two Champions".... And, you'll find the reason why the CFP avoided ALL Big 12 teams that year.
TCU was NOT the legitimate Champion of the Big 12. They shouldn't have been Co-Champs either. The CFP Committee, rightfully, chose to avoid the shit-show that the Big 12 created.
TCU was clearly the BEST TEAM in the Big 12 that year. Maybe, the best in the country. But, they got the most royal of referee screw jobs that you will ever see.... blowing a 28 point 4th quarter lead playing @ Baylor. Let that sink in a minute.... they were LEADING by 28 points... in the 4th quarter... and, somehow lost.
That loss killed them... not the Horned Frog on the helmet.
It was gut-wrenching. Especially because it was largely the result of buffoonish reffing.
When you saw how things played out I would say yes very little doubt.
So blowing a 28 point lead to a team that only has one loss with the assistance of some bad reffing is worse than the other 4 teams that had one loss playing teams with a minimum of 3 losses? Oregon lost at home to Arizona??? tOSU completely laid an egg against VT??? This logic completely goes against your logic regarding last 2 seasons where you hung your hat on teams with the worst losses should be on the outside.
I don't think that anyone will argue that the Goodwill that tOSU had in the tank certainly benefited them when the selection committee made there decision.
Again the problem is simply that we have no clue to what the criteria is to get selected to the so called playoff. In 2014 it was conference championship. In 2016 and 2018 conference champs don't matter anymore. 2018 it was just getting the 4 best teams. Not so much the case in 2015 when tOSU's only blemish was to a team that beat them in a torrential downpour with 30 mile an hour winds. Nobody in their right mind would ever say the Michigan St was a better team than Ohio St that year.
On any given year the committee can hang their hat on any statistic they want and just go with it. The problem I see is that all of these members are not watching football 24/7 and are getting there opinions influenced by the idiots on ESPN which in my mind takes away from the legitimacy of this system.
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Post by Bevo on Jul 17, 2019 19:39:52 GMT
Very little doubt? Really? You should have a LOT of doubt. Being TCU had very little to do with it.
I can't cut and paste on this site for some reason, from behind my work firewall... but, google "Big 12 Crowns Two Champions".... And, you'll find the reason why the CFP avoided ALL Big 12 teams that year.
TCU was NOT the legitimate Champion of the Big 12. They shouldn't have been Co-Champs either. The CFP Committee, rightfully, chose to avoid the shit-show that the Big 12 created.
TCU was clearly the BEST TEAM in the Big 12 that year. Maybe, the best in the country. But, they got the most royal of referee screw jobs that you will ever see.... blowing a 28 point 4th quarter lead playing @ Baylor. Let that sink in a minute.... they were LEADING by 28 points... in the 4th quarter... and, somehow lost.
That loss killed them... not the Horned Frog on the helmet.
It was gut-wrenching. Especially because it was largely the result of buffoonish reffing.
When you saw how things played out I would say yes very little doubt.
So blowing a 28 point lead to a team that only has one loss with the assistance of some bad reffing is worse than the other 4 teams that had one loss playing teams with a minimum of 3 losses? Oregon lost at home to Arizona??? tOSU completely laid an egg against VT??? This logic completely goes against your logic regarding last 2 seasons where you hung your hat on teams with the worst losses should be on the outside.
I don't think that anyone will argue that the Goodwill that tOSU had in the tank certainly benefited them when the selection committee made there decision.
Again the problem is simply that we have no clue to what the criteria is to get selected to the so called playoff. In 2014 it was conference championship. In 2016 and 2018 conference champs don't matter anymore. 2018 it was just getting the 4 best teams. Not so much the case in 2015 when tOSU's only blemish was to a team that beat them in a torrential downpour with 30 mile an hour winds. Nobody in their right mind would ever say the Michigan St was a better team than Ohio St that year.
On any given year the committee can hang their hat on any statistic they want and just go with it. The problem I see is that all of these members are not watching football 24/7 and are getting there opinions influenced by the idiots on ESPN which in my mind takes away from the legitimacy of this system.
The problem the committee had with TCU wasn't just that they lost a game, it was that they were illegitimately declared "Co-Champs". Baylor was the Big12 Champion, and everyone knew it. Just ask Art Briles! :-) Plus, in the end, TCU had played one less game than OSU. That, and the goodwill... I think, were the deciding factors.
I agree with you that the uncertainty is maddening. If the NCAA would mandate balanced scheduling, we could opt to a non-subjective system like CJ's. That would be far more satisfying to me. But, as I look back, I think they have largely gotten it right. As much as I would have LOVED to see TCU in the CFP in 2014 (I do think they would have had a chance to win it). I don't think they deserved it more than Ohio State, or the Baylor team that BEAT them.
The worst decision the committee has made, IMO, was elevating Ohio State over conference Champ, Penn State. But, even that one was close. And, it probably didn't matter.. Neither B1G team would have scored a point.
I know these people don't watch football 24/7, but... I 'seriously doubt' they put much stock in the words of the professional clowns on ESPN. The committee has access to all the tape they want, and reams of various statistical analyses. I suspect they take their jobs pretty seriously and try to make the best selection they can. Wouldn't you?
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Post by Bevo on Jul 18, 2019 14:46:07 GMT
In almost all cases, we are debating about the LAST team(s) who deserved to get into the CFP. ie; We're arguing about WHO gets the Mulligan. In reality, NO TEAM deserves the mulligan. Last year was the perfect example: Bama and Clemson were on a collision course all year. They were, very clearly, the two best teams in the country. Notre Dame deserved a shot, going undefeated against a reasonably good schedule.
That's why, it was particularly disappointing not to let UCF have a shot. What were they? 25 consecutive wins at the time? It would have been more interesting to see them take a shot than to give a Mulligan to some 1-loss big school. OU did fare pretty well, but... still lost. There would be fewer questions now had UCF been allowed to compete. IMO, they had a better argument in 2018 than in 2017.
Then again, if we start requiring perfect records for entry, we're not going to see many marquee intra-conference games. That's the beauty of a system like CJ's. It rewards bravery in scheduling, in a tangible way.
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Post by ajbuckeye on Jul 19, 2019 16:12:46 GMT
In almost all cases, we are debating about the LAST team(s) who deserved to get into the CFP. ie; We're arguing about WHO gets the Mulligan. In reality, NO TEAM deserves the mulligan. Last year was the perfect example: Bama and Clemson were on a collision course all year. They were, very clearly, the two best teams in the country. Notre Dame deserved a shot, going undefeated against a reasonably good schedule. That's why, it was particularly disappointing not to let UCF have a shot. What were they? 25 consecutive wins at the time? It would have been more interesting to see them take a shot than to give a Mulligan to some 1-loss big school. OU did fare pretty well, but... still lost. There would be fewer questions now had UCF been allowed to compete. IMO, they had a better argument in 2018 than in 2017. Then again, if we start requiring perfect records for entry, we're not going to see many marquee intra-conference games. That's the beauty of a system like CJ's. It rewards bravery in scheduling, in a tangible way. Since the start of the selection process there 14 of the 20 teams have gotten a so called mulligan to be selected. SEC 4 mulligans - all 4 got Selected ACC 2 mulligans - both got Selected P12 2 mulligans -both got Selected B12 5 mulligans - 3 got selected B10 7 mulligans - 3 got selected G5 3 undefeated teams - Not even close to a consideration 2 years ago the BiG completely dominated the Bowl Season winning .875% if their Bowl Games. Both the SEC and ACC were under .500. Based on that you would think the BIG would have some Good Will equity but clearly that was not the case especially when you consider a 2 loss UGA team that is not a conference champ was rated ahead of 1 loss Ohio State team that was a conference champ. I am sure that the committee takes their job seriously but I find it very hard to believe that these so called experts are not tuning into to the ESPN\SEC network and taking in their agenda based rationale of who is worthy.
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Post by Bevo on Jul 19, 2019 16:44:25 GMT
a 2 loss UGA team that is not a conference champ was rated ahead of 1 loss Ohio State team that was a conference champ. I'm not sure how to value a committee ranking outside the Top 4? Do they move them around to achieve the bowl matchups they desire? Can't think of any other reason why UGA would have been ranked higher than OSU last year in the final ranking?
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Post by ajbuckeye on Jul 19, 2019 17:17:09 GMT
a 2 loss UGA team that is not a conference champ was rated ahead of 1 loss Ohio State team that was a conference champ. I'm not sure how to value a committee ranking outside the Top 4? Do they move them around to achieve the bowl matchups they desire? Can't think of any other reason why UGA would have been ranked higher than OSU last year in the final ranking? Not sure but OSU was tied to the Rose Bowl so I can imagine it would not have made any difference to where UGA and tOSU ended up. Anyway, these are some of the reasons the I have a hard time accepting the current system as a true national championship. Sure it is clearly better than the BCS but there are way too many legitimate contenders being left on the outside primarily based on the committees interpretation of which mulligan they like the best. I do like your blast from the past that has 8 teams 5 conference champs and 1 G5 and 2 At Large bids. Originally I would probably been against that because it opens the door to a 4 loss team but based on what we have now, that system would be light years better.
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