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Post by ajbuckeye on Aug 14, 2019 17:11:52 GMT
Just to touch base on the Dayton Shooting, the shooter graduated from my kids High School in Bellbrook. My son was a ninth grader when he was a senior and was at the school the day that they yanked the shooter off the bus because of the rape and hit list. He was suspended from school but just 5 days later he was re admitted into school??? A lot of kids were very uptight especially if there names were on the list. The shooters house is about 1/2 mile away from my house and my co-worker grew up in the neighborhood.
Whenever we have these shooting I always try to figure out what caused this kid to essentially lose his mind. His parents seemed to be very normal. The father was a computer engineer and the mother was heavily involved in volunteering in the band and swim team. This seems very similar to my situation. The parents were very much anti-gun which explains why all of the accessories were purchased by a friend. The shooter seemed to have a somewhat normal childhood participating in band swim team amongst other things but clearly had a very dark side to him. When he did get out of high school he was doing some hard drugs as well as smoked a lot of dope.
On the night of the shooting the shooter drove their car down to the Oregon district with his sister and a friend. The Oregon District generally considered a very safe place and well patrolled. I was down there the previous weekend with my wife watching a co-worker who is in a band. The friend that was with him has a younger brother that my son played many years of soccer with. The friend graduated from college and had a good job with Raytheon. He seemed to be a very nice kid and I know his parents very well through soccer. The three of them were in a bar when the shooter decided to go outside and arm himself. When he went back to the bar he specifically targeted his sister and his friend (supposedly best friend) His sister died on the spot and his friend is still in the hospital recovery with a very serious wound to the bladder. By the way, both the sister and his friend were on the original hit list.
This killer clearly had some signs from his past that seem to indicate that he would be capable of these type of monstrous actions. Regarding the second amendment, I do believe in the right to bear arms and the right to defend ourselves but what this person had access to was a killing machine not a defending machine. A semi automatic weopon??? Sure as long as we can limit the magazine size. But a semi automatic weapon that has a magazine that can shoot 100 rounds??? absolutely no!
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Post by doc on Aug 14, 2019 17:40:47 GMT
You just never know what's going through a person's mind - you think you know them and then they do something that shocks the hell out of you. It sounds like the warning signs were there but perhaps weren't taken serious. I grew up in Dayton and my brother actually does trivia at The Oregon Express on Tuesday nights so this really hit close to home for him. Plus, the kid who ordered the arsenal and stored it for the shooter lied on the application to get the supplies. If all you need to do is check a box and they don't make you prove it, that's too easy.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 14, 2019 17:47:05 GMT
Such a sad, and scary story. Must be surreal for you.
It is hard to understand what makes these young men go nuts. They seem to get so desperate for attention, they're willing to 'martyr' themselves, just to gain fame. Or, to 'get back' at a society that they think failed them. In this case, it sounds as if many people already knew that he SHOULDN'T be anywhere near a gun... and yet, he was able to get everything he needed. He PASSED a background check. And yet, people think MORE background checks will save us. They won't. Not as long as they are administered by our inept and incompetent government. Maybe, we should contract it out to Google? :-)
I hear you, regarding large capacity magazines... I could live with a limit of 10 or 20. But, you know.. despite the fact that he had a 100 round clip, he didn't get that many shots off... only 41. Cops shot him less than 30 seconds after he started. The COPS fired 70+ rounds. I have to wonder how many of the people killed or injured were actually hit by a police bullet? Will we ever know? So, even if he had 10 round clips, he would have done a LOT of damage.
What I would LOVE To see is... some discussion around things that might actually help reduce the number and impact of these "teen-suicide mass shootings".
While I'm VERY leery of "Red Flag" laws... in several of these cases, there were family members and friends who had alerted authorities that the would-be shooter was dangerous and unstable. I think, there MUST be some mechanism for family members to go to a court for a ruling... to either lock these people up in an institution, or at the very least, get them added to gun ban list.
I also wish, we would pass a BAN on naming these shooters in all news media: print, video, or internet. Make it a CRIME To report or repeat their freaking names. NO PHOTOS of them... period. It is fame they seek. THAT should be taken away.
To this day, people CANNOT legally be added to a Ban List just because they are taking psych-meds. They cannot be added to the list unless they are institutionalized against their will. That needs to change. I'd be 100% in favor of adding ANYONE under the age of 30, who is taking psych-meds, to the gun ban list. That won't stop them all, but... it might slow a few down. We don't have a "right" to take psych-meds without consequence. Getting added to a gun ban list seems to me a reasonable tradeoff.
Other than that, I'm not sure what will help. So many of the factors are linked to broader breakdowns in societal norms. Those are much harder to fix.
What I do know is: I don't want to take away NORMAL people's right to have guns to defense themselves. For far too many, that is the ONLY thing they will even consider.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 14, 2019 19:27:27 GMT
Wow, that is creepy and close to home, AJ. Thanks for sharing.
He shoots 26 people in 32 total seconds. It's moronic to defend the need for people to be running around with that kind of weaponry.
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 14, 2019 20:31:36 GMT
Wow, that is creepy and close to home, AJ. Thanks for sharing. He shoots 26 people in 32 total seconds. It's moronic to defend the need for people to be running around with that kind of weaponry. Some guys I've seen can almost do that woith a revolver and speed loaders.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 14, 2019 20:51:08 GMT
Wow, that is creepy and close to home, AJ. Thanks for sharing. He shoots 26 people in 32 total seconds. It's moronic to defend the need for people to be running around with that kind of weaponry. What's moronic is ignoring the teen suicide aspect of what's happening.
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Post by EvilVodka on Aug 14, 2019 21:06:01 GMT
How important is the 2nd amendment? Take a look at Hong Kong
Yes, these shootings are horrible and tragic. But in these years where government corruption is being exposed at a rapid rate, it's probably a good thing that our society is armed
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Post by ajbuckeye on Aug 15, 2019 15:11:52 GMT
I chose not to include the shooters name for that same reason. The Columbine shooters names are engraved in our brains and I think that only empowers these people to commit these horrendous acts. Regarding the second amendment, I am certainly not in favor of pushing through any changes but I do think it is worth looking into what makes sense from a common sense perspective. Unfortunately our political figures never see it they way. Kamala Harris was using the recent Philly incident to push her agenda while the scene was still active? I think Doc said it best. If getting this type a weaponry is determined just by a check on the box then it is way to easy.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 15, 2019 15:59:37 GMT
In the meantime, this Dayton incident shows the tremendous benefit of have "GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS" nearby. I shudder to think how bad this incident COULD have been if the cops took as long to get there as they did at Parkland.
We should protect our kids as well as we do bar patrons.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 15, 2019 21:10:10 GMT
Anybody else around here in the NRA besides CPA ?
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 16, 2019 0:43:05 GMT
Anybody else around here in the NRA besides CPA ? I allowed my membership to lapse. Simply got tired of the marketing being pushed at me 24/7.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 16, 2019 2:02:08 GMT
You know CPA, I could have even been a candidate for NRA membership maybe 40 years ago because I come from a long family tradition of hunting and fishing. That's why I have so many 'sporting' guns as most of it has been passed down to me. After moving to the Blue Ridge I just added a deer rifle and shotgun for mountain grouse which I loved to hunt. The old NRA magazines featured images of a father or grandfather cleaning a fine upland bird double near a cabin fireplace with a beautiful pointer on the braided rug and the young fellow taking it all in. Now it seems like the NRA is all about pushing tactical, semi automatic, large magazine weaponry for the main purpose of shooting people marketed as 'defense'. It's really turned somewhat greedy-evil , IMO. Glad you're not one of Wayne LaPiere's boys now.
Seems like after every mass slaughter trump starts talking about some little things to do like common sense universal background checks (desired by 90% of us) Until Wayne calls him up and reminds him of all the votes and money the NRA has and will deliver to the pro gun glut political candidates and then the concern just dies down. I do credit him for not blocking the bump stock legislation....a token common sense small step.
So, do you do any hunting ?
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 16, 2019 13:59:56 GMT
You know CPA, I could have even been a candidate for NRA membership maybe 40 years ago because I come from a long family tradition of hunting and fishing. That's why I have so many 'sporting' guns as most of it has been passed down to me. After moving to the Blue Ridge I just added a deer rifle and shotgun for mountain grouse which I loved to hunt. The old NRA magazines featured images of a father or grandfather cleaning a fine upland bird double near a cabin fireplace with a beautiful pointer on the braided rug and the young fellow taking it all in. Now it seems like the NRA is all about pushing tactical, semi automatic, large magazine weaponry for the main purpose of shooting people marketed as 'defense'. It's really turned somewhat greedy-evil , IMO. Glad you're not one of Wayne LaPiere's boys now. Seems like after every mass slaughter trump starts talking about some little things to do like common sense universal background checks (desired by 90% of us) Until Wayne calls him up and reminds him of all the votes and money the NRA has and will deliver to the pro gun glut political candidates and then the concern just dies down. I do credit him for not blocking the bump stock legislation....a token common sense small step. So, do you do any hunting ? The problem with that, besides being fake news, is that the same 90% of people can't tell you what the current background check involves, nor what a "common sense background check" involves. They heard some anchor of CBS/NBC/ABC News say it and they agree with it because it "sounds good." WHo can argue with "common sense? they say.... We have 20,000 "common sense" gun laws on the books now. They appear to be common, but not sensible? The NRA has actually supported expanded background checks, especially on the mental issues, but Democrats defeat the bill every time because of "medical privacy". It's against their "right to privacy" to divulge that they may be likely to go on a shooting rampage and kill 27 people. I do some hunting on my father-in law's farm in the lowcountry of SC. Turkey, deer and wild hogs mostly.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 16, 2019 14:27:43 GMT
The problem with that, besides being fake news, is that the same 90% of people can't tell you what the current background check involves, nor what a "common sense background check" involves.
Current checks DON'T include young men taking Xanax or other anti-depressant meds...
Hen, did you pass a background check to receive those guns that were handed down to you? There's another loophole these gun nuts will want to fill.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 16, 2019 15:48:44 GMT
Nope, Bevo..didn't pass or fail any kind of background check. Most of those sporting arms were passed from PA to DE and on to me in VA
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