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Post by bluehen on Aug 24, 2022 21:05:10 GMT
Well thanks for all the preaching, GG, and trying to 'save' me and all that. You sound like a faithful good hearted country preacher. Oh yeah, one can find all kinds of biblical speculation of where and when the astonishing old testament 'events' took place and also find overwhelming zero scientific evidence of any of it.....but I would take you up on your offer for a tour of these places that no doubt existed......the Red Sea crossing site, the Garden of Eden, Noah's boat yard, Mt. Sinai etc etc.. and I always wondered how a male and female of every species on Earth got to Noah's boat and climate acclimated immediately. For example, a turtle from the equator with a crawling speed of 25 yards a day might take 75 years to board the Ark and can only live in 60 degree plus weather, while a penguin. from the arctic region would take forever to find the ark and couldn't live in temperatures above 35 degrees...and what about the thousands of insect species from all over Earth ? Where they invited to the boat by God ? Also, when the water receded from the great cleansing flood of the entire planet where did that water go ? You're 100% certain this stuff happened ? Remember, the Bible is NOT a science book ( even if displayed upside down by you know who) On the depth of God's love.......Yeah , feeling the need to wash away four little innocent children sure has some depth...not to mention all the massive pain and suffering on mankind over time. I believe mother Nature is more responsible for all that than any of the assorted deities of human civilization. She (science) can be both beautiful/life giving and extremely cruel.
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 24, 2022 21:11:19 GMT
I absolutely believe all of those things happened. Why would I believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead and was God but not believe the other things you mentioned - it's either all completely true or all completely false. The flood being the first time it rained on earth (before that was basically a greenhouse effect.) God saved Noah and his family after the rest of the world had rejected God. History will repeat itself soon enough. This world will burn up but those that turn to The Lord will be saved. The Jews being escorted out of Egypt via the parting of the Red Sea was witnessed and experienced by thousands of Jews. If I took you to Mt. Sinai, would that make you believe in God? Many have seen the works of God and still didn't believe, including the Jews walking through the Red Sea and those who personally witnessed the miracles of Christ on earth. That is because we are asked to walk by faith, not by sight. John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”God loves you Blue Hen, and aufan, and all who mock and reject Him. He's there for anyone willing to humble themselves and seek Him with a sincere heart. The number one thing that keeps man from doing that is their own pride. We harden our hearts, think that we (man) are in control, and think we are "good people" and thus have no need for God or a savior. Well said. Agreed. Liken this to separation of church and state, one of the most mis-used, misunderstood phrases. God gave the power of the sword to the government and not to the church. The mission of the church is to preach the gospel. You cannot bring people to Christ with the power of the sword. Only through God's grace and the power of the Holy Spirit can one be brought unto Jesus. Separation of church and state does not mean a separation of religiously informed moral reasoning from public policy. It’s often said that religious people who run for office need to "check their religion" at the door before they make policy. Historically, this would have made no sense to our Founders, most of whom were very religious.
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Post by aufan on Aug 25, 2022 11:21:50 GMT
Agreed. Liken this to separation of church and state, one of the most mis-used, misunderstood phrases. God gave the power of the sword to the government and not to the church. The mission of the church is to preach the gospel. You cannot bring people to Christ with the power of the sword. Only through God's grace and the power of the Holy Spirit can one be brought unto Jesus. Separation of church and state does not mean a separation of religiously informed moral reasoning from public policy. It’s often said that religious people who run for office need to "check their religion" at the door before they make policy. Historically, this would have made no sense to our Founders, most of whom were very religious. Religiously informed morality is not morality at all. Religion was used to justify slavery and other evils. It has continued as an argument against other civil liberties such as gay marriage and interracial marriage. The founding of America was based on individual liberty, not religious morality. It was only when we separated religion from government, and the adults started creating policy - not children who believe in fairy tales - that we started to govern in a morally just way. And this is a good thing, otherwise we’d still be hearing why Genesis 9 justifies slavery.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 25, 2022 12:19:39 GMT
All the assorted religions of civilization have a lineage of fairy tales, folk tales fables and mythology. I saw the Bible's old testament 'whoppers' described as "Harry Potter" for adults Again, so basic/fundamental : Religions (and their mythologies) evolved due to man's lack of scientific knowledge for explaining natural phenomena.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 25, 2022 15:11:13 GMT
If abortion is god’s will, why support someone who you say is not a man of god to change it? As you mentioned, abortion is a great thing for a fetus because they go straight to heaven for eternity. I’m confused why it is the number one issue to overturn god’s will? Neither Clinton or Biden are Godly individuals either so again, we are choosing the "lesser of two evils." And Donald Trump was the only candidate of the two that said he would try to change it when I voted for him over Clinton in 2016, and the only candidate of the two that had proven he would try to change it (given his judge appointments during his term) when I voted for him over Biden in 2020. God doesn't need a "man of God" to accomplish His will. In fact He can use men who do not know God AT ALL to accomplish His will to show His power. It is possible for an individual like Donald Trump to still do good like appoint pro life judges which ultimately will end up saving lives. Read the story of King Cyrus. God used Cyrus of all people (who did not know God) to get the Jews out of captivity in Babylon and back to their land and to rebuild their temple as prophesied in Isaiah 45! Amazing stuff. Pay special attention to the parts underlined: Isaiah 45: This is what the Lord says to Cyrus His anointed,
Whom I have taken by the right hand,
To subdue nations before him
And to undo the weapons belt on the waist of kings;
To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
“I will go before you and make the rough places smooth;
I will shatter the doors of bronze and cut through their iron bars.
I will give you the treasures of darkness
And hidden wealth of secret places,
So that you may know that it is I,
The Lord, the God of Israel, who calls you by your name. For the sake of Jacob My servant,
And Israel My chosen one,
I have also called you by your name;
I have given you (Cyrus) a title of honor
Though you have not known Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no one else;
There is no God except Me.
I will arm you, though you have not known Me,
So that people may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no one else,
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating disaster;
I am the Lord who does all these things. “Drip down, heavens, from above,
And let the clouds pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit,
And righteousness sprout with it.
I, the Lord, have created it.
“Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker—
A piece of pottery among the other earthenware pottery pieces!
Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’
Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands’?
Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you fathering?’
Or to a woman, ‘To what are you giving birth?’”
This is what the Lord says, the Holy One of Israel and his Maker: “Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons,
And you shall commit to Me the work of My hands.
It is I who made the earth, and created mankind upon it.
I stretched out the heavens with My hands,
And I ordained all their lights. I have stirred him in righteousness,
And I will make all his ways smooth.
He will build My city and let My exiles go free,
Without any payment or reward,” says the Lord of armies.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 25, 2022 15:26:45 GMT
Well thanks for all the preaching, GG, and trying to 'save' me and all that. You sound like a faithful good hearted country preacher. Oh yeah, one can find all kinds of biblical speculation of where and when the astonishing old testament 'events' took place and also find overwhelming zero scientific evidence of any of it.....but I would take you up on your offer for a tour of these places that no doubt existed......the Red Sea crossing site, the Garden of Eden, Noah's boat yard, Mt. Sinai etc etc.. and I always wondered how a male and female of every species on Earth got to Noah's boat and climate acclimated immediately. For example, a turtle from the equator with a crawling speed of 25 yards a day might take 75 years to board the Ark and can only live in 60 degree plus weather, while a penguin. from the arctic region would take forever to find the ark and couldn't live in temperatures above 35 degrees...and what about the thousands of insect species from all over Earth ? Where they invited to the boat by God ? Also, when the water receded from the great cleansing flood of the entire planet where did that water go ? You're 100% certain this stuff happened ? Remember, the Bible is NOT a science book. On the depth of God's love.......Yeah , feeling the need to wash away four little innocent children sure has some depth...not to mention all the massive pain and suffering on mankind over time. I believe mother Nature is more responsible for all that than any of the assorted deities of human civilization. She (science) can be both beautiful/life giving and extremely cruel. Absolutely 100% certain. No doubt whatsoever. Science is a thing...and God created even that. Again, we should not be so arrogant to determine what the most loving thing would be in any given situation. We do not see the big picture as He does. God is not bound by earthly time. He is eternal. Eternity is infinitely longer than any human time on earth. God wants us to be with Him for eternity and knows what it takes to give us all the opportunity to choose Him or not. I am not trying to "save" you Hen. Only God can do that. Nor am I "country" in any way. Not a preacher either. But when you seek and personally experience the God of the universe and His love, you cannot help but share with others. From Psalm 103: For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him.
As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our wrongdoings from us.
Just as a father has compassion on his children,
So the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him.
For He Himself knows our form;
He is mindful that we are nothing but dust.
As for man, his days are like grass;
Like a flower of the field, so he flourishes.
When the wind has passed over it, it is no more,
And its place no longer knows about it.
But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting for those who fear Him,
And His justice to the children’s children,
To those who keep His covenant
And remember His precepts, so as to do them.
The Lord has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 25, 2022 15:38:53 GMT
All the assorted religions of civilization have a lineage of fairy tales, folk tales fables and mythology. I saw the Bible's old testament 'whoppers' described as "Harry Potter" for adults Again, so basic/fundamental : Religions (and their mythologies) evolved due to man's lack of scientific knowledge for explaining natural phenomena. Or...perhaps since we (man) do not have the knowledge of God, it is not possible for us to understand everything in the universe nor is it necessary for us to know everything. He has revealed to us all that we need to know at this time on this earth. We can choose to humbly admit this and put our trust in the one who does know all and created all. And when we do with a sincere heart, we can have peace and joy that nothing else in this world can bring. Compare the level of understanding and knowledge about the universe between an earthworm and a human. The same applies when comparing humans to God...but much much more so.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 25, 2022 16:50:13 GMT
Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and numerous other less widespread religions believe some other deity (s) created "all" and knows "all".How do you reconcile that, GG ?
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 25, 2022 19:13:05 GMT
Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and numerous other less widespread religions believe some other deity (s) created "all" and knows "all".How do you reconcile that, GG ? Jesus was a real historical person. He is not mythology. He claimed to be God in the flesh and proved it throughout His walk on this earth and raising himself from the dead. If you witnessed someone like this who lived a sinless life, was crucified despite doing nothing wrong, then you watched him be placed in a tomb, and then met him three days later...what would you conclude?
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Post by bluehen on Aug 25, 2022 20:28:52 GMT
I fully respect you and your faith, GG. This focus on Jesus as real....does this mean you might consider that much of the Old Testament might just be mythology ? I've got New Testament and Jesus questions too ( for example-was Jesus a white guy ? . There were plenty of Black Jews 2000 years + ago.. But For now I'll confine my questions to the Old Testament. Anyway, you might enjoy and appreciate a haunting ballad 'The Resurrection Of Jesus Christ' home recorded by Mrs Hen years ago. I collected it from an old lady traditional singer from Eastern Kentucky ( where the loving God recently decided to wreak pain and havoc on those poor mountain people )for a college research project. Those recordings are in the Library Of Congress. If I can find someone who knows how to help me do it I'll post it on here. Did you ever answer my question ?: Do you believe the instant creation story of Adam and Eve in the Garden Of Eden or rather in the evolution of species science including primates and man ?....Creationism or Evolution. And do you believe this Jonah guy lived in the belly of a big fish ( or whale) for 72 straight hours and was spit out ( completely healthy !) back at a place where God originally ordered him to do some God PR work ?
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Post by aufan on Aug 25, 2022 21:31:08 GMT
If abortion is god’s will, why support someone who you say is not a man of god to change it? As you mentioned, abortion is a great thing for a fetus because they go straight to heaven for eternity. I’m confused why it is the number one issue to overturn god’s will? Neither Clinton or Biden are Godly individuals either so again, we are choosing the "lesser of two evils." And Donald Trump was the only candidate of the two that said he would try to change it when I voted for him over Clinton in 2016, and the only candidate of the two that had proven he would try to change it (given his judge appointments during his term) when I voted for him over Biden in 2020. No you missed the question. We both agree that abortion is God’s will, and even doing the aborted baby a favor because they get to go directly to heaven. He uses it as a tool, just like he drowned those children, for the greater good that we cannot understand. Based on this I wish I was aborted and so should every believer. Why vote to overturn god’s will?
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Post by Hero on Aug 25, 2022 21:45:33 GMT
I fully respect you and your faith, GG. Respect...you? Sure, fine, right.
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 26, 2022 12:17:51 GMT
Agreed. Liken this to separation of church and state, one of the most mis-used, misunderstood phrases. God gave the power of the sword to the government and not to the church. The mission of the church is to preach the gospel. You cannot bring people to Christ with the power of the sword. Only through God's grace and the power of the Holy Spirit can one be brought unto Jesus. Separation of church and state does not mean a separation of religiously informed moral reasoning from public policy. It’s often said that religious people who run for office need to "check their religion" at the door before they make policy. Historically, this would have made no sense to our Founders, most of whom were very religious. Religiously informed morality is not morality at all. Religion was used to justify slavery and other evils. It has continued as an argument against other civil liberties such as gay marriage and interracial marriage. The founding of America was based on individual liberty, not religious morality. It was only when we separated religion from government, and the adults started creating policy - not children who believe in fairy tales - that we started to govern in a morally just way. And this is a good thing, otherwise we’d still be hearing why Genesis 9 justifies slavery. Again, we see that separation of church and state is a valid concept; however, our modern secular society has come to incorrectly understand this phrase to mean either a separation of morality from lawmaking or a separation of religiously informed opinion from the lawmaker. Both of these are wrong. Separation of church and state does not mean a separation of moral reasoning from public policy. Such would be futile. Additionally, it does NOT mean a separation of religiously informed moral reasoning from public policy. Indeed, a reference to God's laws is found in the opening paragraph of our formative document. The liberties you discuss are clearly found in the Bible - equality, liberty and justice - are all Biblical p[rinciples.
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Post by aufan on Aug 26, 2022 12:44:44 GMT
Religiously informed morality is not morality at all. Religion was used to justify slavery and other evils. It has continued as an argument against other civil liberties such as gay marriage and interracial marriage. The founding of America was based on individual liberty, not religious morality. It was only when we separated religion from government, and the adults started creating policy - not children who believe in fairy tales - that we started to govern in a morally just way. And this is a good thing, otherwise we’d still be hearing why Genesis 9 justifies slavery. Again, we see that separation of church and state is a valid concept; however, our modern secular society has come to incorrectly understand this phrase to mean either a separation of morality from lawmaking or a separation of religiously informed opinion from the lawmaker. Both of these are wrong. Separation of church and state does not mean a separation of moral reasoning from public policy. Such would be futile. Additionally, it does NOT mean a separation of religiously informed moral reasoning from public policy. Indeed, a reference to God's laws is found in the opening paragraph of our formative document. The liberties you discuss are clearly found in the Bible - equality, liberty and justice - are all Biblical p[rinciples. The constitution has no references to god, and the references to religion are to separate it from government. That is by design. Nobody will argue that the Bible doesn’t have good passages. There is silver lining in probably every document. But religiously formed morality? ‘Religious morality’ is a goddamn oxymoron. Religion has been used as justification of some of the worst evils we have seen, slavery, genocide, wars. It alone has proven it cannot be used as a foundation of morality. Our largest strides as a species have been to divorce ourselves from ‘religious morality’ and govern with reason and justice. Our government was designed so that you are free to go to your book club on Sunday and talk about the fairy tale to your heart’s content, but that the adults would do the governing based on sound principles of individual liberties.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 26, 2022 13:34:12 GMT
Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and numerous other less widespread religions believe some other deity (s) created "all" and knows "all".How do you reconcile that, GG ? Jesus was a real historical person. He is not mythology. He claimed to be God in the flesh and proved it throughout His walk on this earth and raising himself from the dead. If you witnessed someone like this who lived a sinless life, was crucified despite doing nothing wrong, then you watched him be placed in a tomb, and then met him three days later...what would you conclude?
GG, all your Jesus commentary is nice but it didn't remotely answer the question about the other religions of the world which have their own 'creators' and 'know it alls'. FACT : only 31.2% of the global population of Earth identify with Christianity and I would guess a significant less % would be hard core literal Bible believing evangelicals regarding all the supernatural folk tales and fairy tales. The question was .. How do you reconcile that ? What do you think about this 31.2 % reality ?
Another question , also. You seem proud of your multiple Trump voting. You are aware, aren't you ? ,that trump has clearly violated at least 7 of the 10 commandments that came down from an elusive Mt Sinai (via Moses) that cartographers and even biblical scholars can't find or provide coordinates for. Does this bother you in any way ?.....that you're supporting a non God fearing, God defying, chronic sinner for , perhaps ,the most important job on Earth.
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