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Post by ajbuckeye on Dec 31, 2019 19:55:35 GMT
I was just watching the UK VT game and saw a play where targeting was called. The UK defensive player went to tackle the QB and the QB lowered himself and during the tackle there was helmet to helmet targeting. It was called targeting on the field so I assume this was a no brainer and upon review the overturned the call? The broadcasters said since it was not a defensive player and he did not launch himself it was the correct call? ?
Without a doubt the Fiesta Bowl was a great game but every potentially controversial call went against the Buckeyes 1) The roughing the kicker should have been running into the kicker. The Buckeye defender was trying to hold up when he made contact 2) The targeting call was not called in the field. QB was not defensless and Wade did not launch himself 3) The Fumble for TD was clearly blundered. How can review a play 20 times and that make the case that a play should be overturned. Clearly it was not indisputable and should never have been overturned. And what is the purpose for reviewing a play a full speed.
4) The Dobbins Fumble 5) The Clemson receiver going out of bounds and coming back into to make the play. Pretty light touch on that one.
Yeah yeah yeah, I heard all of the stuff about tOSU not being able to get TD's instead of FG in the first half and Dobbins not catching a TD etc etc etc. But make no mistake about the Zerbras were a major factor that had a huge impact on this game. I am good with the calls made on 4 and 5 but 1,2, and 3 had huge impacts on the outcome and number 3 was one of the biggest blundered calls that I have ever seen.
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Post by Bevo on Dec 31, 2019 20:57:15 GMT
Homerism is strong.
Wade absolutely launched himself, putting his own life at risk. That was as blatant a targeting call as I have ever seen, well ... except for call on the OU thug. If other similar plays are not called? Shame on those refs.
The fumble-scoop TD was the closest call, IMO. Personally, I don’t think the catch was ever made. It was contested from the time the receiver first touched the ball. He certainly never secured the ball before it came out.
Would have been a tough call, either way. But, it never looked like a catch to me.
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Post by EvilVodka on Dec 31, 2019 23:29:54 GMT
Very tough loss for a very good Buckeyes team
Fields will be back next year though. I've seen teams in these situations make it a mission to win a championship the next year
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 1, 2020 15:47:46 GMT
1. somewhat subjective here, but if the kicker's leg is in the air when you hit him, they call the 15-yarder more often than not. 2. pretty close to launching, he crouches and then lifts the right leg up as he makes contact. forcible contact with crown of helmet. 3. absolutely an incomplete pass per the rules a. able to throw or pitch the ball? Nope. b. able to advance the ball? Nope, being pushed backwards c. able to avoid or ward off a defender? Nope, Okudah all over him d. when in doubt, pass is incomplete
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Post by ajbuckeye on Jan 2, 2020 16:43:43 GMT
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 2, 2020 16:48:45 GMT
The rules are clear, all you have to do is apply them to the review. Was he able to throw or pitch the ball? No. Was he able to advance the ball? No. Was he able to avoid or shake free of defender? No. Therefore, no football move. No catch, no fumble. It's very straight forward. Pass in the Rose Bowl yesterday almost exact same thing...WR took 3 steps, DB all over him, no football move, ball comes out....pass incomplete...not a fumble.
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 2, 2020 16:52:54 GMT
I've seen many Buckeye fans posting on Twitter that they were waiting for Bill's stats to come out to show how they dominated this game....and the stats don't show that.
Interesting that Dobbins and Higgins both only had 33% success rates.
Dobbins was feast or famine. Trevor had 62% success rate rushing. ETN's surprise was receiving - get him in space 3/98/2 32 YPC.
"Garrett WIlson had 100% success rate.
These stats don't reflect Clemson's 2 dropped pick 6s, either. They do reflect the effect of Dobbins, Higgins and Ross being banged up and playing hurt.
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Post by doc on Jan 2, 2020 19:01:13 GMT
3. absolutely an incomplete pass per the rules I have no complaints on any points but this - I've watched it 30 times and Ross caught the ball. He knew he did or why wouldn't he have just stopped playing, he clearly tried to make a motion to try and recover it.
No excuses, OSU lost. Despite their mistakes they had a chance to win at the end - with evenly matched teams that's all you can ask for. But I'll never be convinced that the kid didn't catch the ball and having all sorts of silly definitions to try and sort through while watching a replay, slow motion or in game speed, whatever - is comical. A catch is a catch regardless of if it's against your body, tucked under your arm or held up in the air to avoid the defender. And I guess all I'll add is what would the call have been had he got knocked or stepped out of bounds - a catch. Happens several times in every game.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 2, 2020 19:14:34 GMT
3. absolutely an incomplete pass per the rules what would the call have been had he got knocked or stepped out of bounds - a catch. Happens several times in every game.
The call would have been incomplete, even more clearly on an out of bounds play. You MUST secure the ball. He never was able to. What defines a "catch" has become a joke in the last several years. I still can't get over the Dez Bryant "non-catch" TD in the playoffs. Dez never got over it either. One of the most fantastic plays I've ever seen.... and, they said it wasn't even a catch? www.youtube.com/watch?v=1khK6is-Bfs It was a tough play to rule on. No way I would ever expect any OSU fan to agree with it. I never would, if it has been ruled against Texas. But, from a relatively impartial POV: I've seen a TON of better catches ruled incomplete.
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Post by tigercpa on Jan 2, 2020 20:38:49 GMT
what would the call have been had he got knocked or stepped out of bounds - a catch. Happens several times in every game.
The call would have been incomplete, even more clearly on an out of bounds play. You MUST secure the ball. He never was able to. What defines a "catch" has become a joke in the last several years. I still can't get over the Dez Bryant "non-catch" TD in the playoffs. Dez never got over it either. One of the most fantastic plays I've ever seen.... and, they said it wasn't even a catch? www.youtube.com/watch?v=1khK6is-Bfs It was a tough play to rule on. No way I would ever expect any OSU fan to agree with it. I never would, if it has been ruled against Texas. But, from a relatively impartial POV: I've seen a TON of better catches ruled incomplete. Agree - need a referendum on what is (1) a catch, and (2), targeting
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Post by doc on Jan 2, 2020 21:12:37 GMT
Targeting is what it is - as soon as I saw the replay I knew it would be called and that's a valid reason to use replay. But having the same penalty for what the Oklahoma kid in the other semi-final game and what Wade did doesn't seem right. The movement of Lawrence contributed to the helmet to helmet but you have to be aware enough to not duck your head - I have no problem with that call but I wonder about the severity of the penalty on plays like that. They have to protect the players so I get it.
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Post by Bevo on Jan 3, 2020 2:56:16 GMT
Targeting is what it is - as soon as I saw the replay I knew it would be called and that's a valid reason to use replay. But having the same penalty for what the Oklahoma kid in the other semi-final game and what Wade did doesn't seem right. The movement of Lawrence contributed to the helmet to helmet but you have to be aware enough to not duck your head - I have no problem with that call but I wonder about the severity of the penalty on plays like that. They have to protect the players so I get it. It is a very tough penalty. But, even after 2 years, kids STILL do it. So, maybe the sever penalty is warranted. To me, TL's ducking didn't matter at all. It wasn't just a matter of hitting TL in the head, it was the way Wade LED with his head. It he'd hit TL in the gut, it would still be targeting. As I said in my first post, This HAD to be a hard game for Buckeyes to watch.. as, SO MANY THINGS (Calls, and mistakes) seemed to be going against them. I know, I would have been yelling at the zebras. But, I also know... NO Buckeye fan ever gave up. You were IN this game until the very last INT.
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Post by doc on Jan 3, 2020 15:53:04 GMT
Targeting is what it is - as soon as I saw the replay I knew it would be called and that's a valid reason to use replay. But having the same penalty for what the Oklahoma kid in the other semi-final game and what Wade did doesn't seem right. The movement of Lawrence contributed to the helmet to helmet but you have to be aware enough to not duck your head - I have no problem with that call but I wonder about the severity of the penalty on plays like that. They have to protect the players so I get it. It is a very tough penalty. But, even after 2 years, kids STILL do it. So, maybe the sever penalty is warranted. To me, TL's ducking didn't matter at all. It wasn't just a matter of hitting TL in the head, it was the way Wade LED with his head. It he'd hit TL in the gut, it would still be targeting. As I said in my first post, This HAD to be a hard game for Buckeyes to watch.. as, SO MANY THINGS (Calls, and mistakes) seemed to be going against them. I know, I would have been yelling at the zebras. But, I also know... NO Buckeye fan ever gave up. You were IN this game until the very last INT. It ended with such a thud - our party was hitting a delirous pitch as Fields meticulously led the team down the field and then he throws an interception where there wasn't a Buckeye player in sight - this from a guy who threw 1 interception the entire season (he had 2 in that game). I later read the receiver made a bad read and was supposed to do a post, Fields threw the ball just as he was breaking and he went the wrong way. The receiver, Olave who had a great season, owned up to it after the game and feels horrible for the team.
And with that, after a week of complete frustration, I'm over it and ready to move forward. The Bucks were one of the top 3 teams in the country and had a real shot at getting to the final game. I just wish there was another game next week!
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Post by Bevo on Jan 3, 2020 16:47:52 GMT
The Bucks were one of the top 3 teams in the country and had a real shot at getting to the final game. I just wish there was another game next week! Just think, in the OLD days, you would have gone to Rose Bowl, CRUSHED the Ducks, finished undefeated and PROBABLY been voted as National Champ in at least one poll. Are you SURE this national obsession with a PLAYOFF Champion is an improvement?
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Post by doc on Jan 3, 2020 17:59:44 GMT
I don't know - the Sugar Bowl would have probably brokered a deal to have Clemson play LSU and promoted it as the NC game for 3 to 4 weeks. While that's the game we'll get anyway at least they both had to beat someone for the right to play.
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