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Post by bluehen on Sept 14, 2017 15:17:25 GMT
Sure its about dollars, Bevo...but if in a privileged league there is vastly more revenue to be shared from TV contracts and big PSEGs...and more revenue leads to bigger budgets, better facilities etc. which draws better recruits. The playing field is still not level. The poor can't get rich in the stigmatized two class system. This is the argument for socialism. Nothing is accomplished by you but rather only happens to you. Never mind what you have or haven't earned, only concern yourself with what others have earned and have not given to you. Liberal ideology at its core. It's a good thing that no other team sports leagues think like that, Hero......that greed based capitalism is the correct way to run the league. No other team sports league designates 50% of its membership as second class citizens and should never have any equal opportunities to compete for championships. So, Mr. Elite, please give a step by step plan and path for a, so called, 'G5' league to achieve a , so called,' P6' status.. Let's use the Sun Belt, for example. Give realistic instructions ( no fantasy stuff...REALISTIC only !) for the Sun Belt Conference to achieve unofficial P6 status and equal opportunity in the NCAA FBS football sub division. Thank you.
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Post by Bevo on Sept 14, 2017 15:51:05 GMT
]So, Mr. Elite, please give a step by step plan and path for a, so called, 'G5' league to achieve a , so called,' P6' status.. Let's use the Sun Belt, for example. Give realistic instructions ( no fantasy stuff...REALISTIC only !) for the Sun Belt Conference to achieve unofficial P6 status and equal opportunity in the NCAA FBS football sub division. Thank you. You're right. They can't do it. IMPOSSIBLE for any of them to every improve enough to worthy of being at the same level as the P5 elites. What I don't get is: Why are you mad at the P5 teams, and not mad at the stupid NCAA? It's the NCAA that has grouped such obviously disparate teams together. It's a shame that the G5 teams aren't allowed to compete against teams with similar resource levels.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Sept 14, 2017 16:06:55 GMT
Bevo: "It's the NCAA that has grouped such obviously disparate teams together."
FHF: Talk about revisionist history! That is just plain nuts. The NCAA didn't create the FBS conferences. It has been a natural evolution over many decades, and the evolution is continuing.
Nothing is preventing the power conferences from making good on their threat to leave the NCAA and form their own governing body. Extortion is so unbecoming. The sooner the better.
Shame on the so-called G5 conferences for not challenging the P5 conferences and the NCAA in court, as Utah's AG publicly threatened to do.
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Post by Bevo on Sept 14, 2017 16:54:27 GMT
Bevo: "It's the NCAA that has grouped such obviously disparate teams together." FHF: Talk about revisionist history! That is just plain nuts. The NCAA didn't create the FBS conferences. It has been a natural evolution over many decades, and the evolution is continuing. Nothing is preventing the power conferences from making good on their threat to leave the NCAA and form their own governing body. Extortion is so unbecoming. The sooner the better. Shame on the so-called G5 conferences for not challenging the P5 conferences and the NCAA in court, as Utah's AG publicly threatened to do. So... basically, you're favorite "Governing Body" doesn't govern? If the NCAA doesn't even set the definitions for the Divisions (I think they do) Then why would anyone expect, or even want them to run some kind of Champion determination? I never said the NCAA defines FBS Conferences. Why do you insist on making stuff up? The NCAA defines the requirements for being Div 1, 2, 3... and, for being FCS vs FBS. It is the NCAA that sees fit to group all the FBS teams in the same Division, despite the VERY OBVIOUS distinction between the P5 and G5 schools.
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Post by Hero on Sept 14, 2017 21:21:20 GMT
This is the argument for socialism. Nothing is accomplished by you but rather only happens to you. Never mind what you have or haven't earned, only concern yourself with what others have earned and have not given to you. Liberal ideology at its core. It's a good thing that no other team sports leagues think like that, Hero......that greed based capitalism is the correct way to run the league. No other team sports league designates 50% of its membership as second class citizens and should never have any equal opportunities to compete for championships. So, Mr. Elite, please give a step by step plan and path for a, so called, 'G5' league to achieve a , so called,' P6' status.. Let's use the Sun Belt, for example. Give realistic instructions ( no fantasy stuff...REALISTIC only !) for the Sun Belt Conference to achieve unofficial P6 status and equal opportunity in the NCAA FBS football sub division. Thank you. Keeping what you earn is labeled as greed...spoken like a true socialist. The Sun Belt can begin calling themselves P6 today, or P5 or P1 or any other slang term that pleases them.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Sept 14, 2017 21:31:26 GMT
Bevo: "It's the NCAA that has grouped such obviously disparate teams together." FHF: Talk about revisionist history! That is just plain nuts. The NCAA didn't create the FBS conferences. It has been a natural evolution over many decades, and the evolution is continuing. Nothing is preventing the power conferences from making good on their threat to leave the NCAA and form their own governing body. Extortion is so unbecoming. The sooner the better. Shame on the so-called G5 conferences for not challenging the P5 conferences and the NCAA in court, as Utah's AG publicly threatened to do. So... basically, you're favorite "Governing Body" doesn't govern? If the NCAA doesn't even set the definitions for the Divisions (I think they do) Then why would anyone expect, or even want them to run some kind of Champion determination? I never said the NCAA defines FBS Conferences. Why do you insist on making stuff up? The NCAA defines the requirements for being Div 1, 2, 3... and, for being FCS vs FBS. It is the NCAA that sees fit to group all the FBS teams in the same Division, despite the VERY OBVIOUS distinction between the P5 and G5 schools. You referred to the P5 conferences in the previous sentence. Therefore, it was reasonable to assume that you were referring to conference alignments.
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Post by bluehen on Sept 14, 2017 22:42:31 GMT
It's a good thing that no other team sports leagues think like that, Hero......that greed based capitalism is the correct way to run the league. No other team sports league designates 50% of its membership as second class citizens and should never have any equal opportunities to compete for championships. So, Mr. Elite, please give a step by step plan and path for a, so called, 'G5' league to achieve a , so called,' P6' status.. Let's use the Sun Belt, for example. Give realistic instructions ( no fantasy stuff...REALISTIC only !) for the Sun Belt Conference to achieve unofficial P6 status and equal opportunity in the NCAA FBS football sub division. Thank you. Keeping what you earn is labeled as greed...spoken like a true socialist. The Sun Belt can begin calling themselves P6 today, or P5 or P1 or any other slang term that pleases them. The media and the people that run the post season and the DPI (ESPN) would have to start calling the SBC 'P6' . What I want is step by step instructions to the SBC commissioner on how to achieve real cartel status for his league .
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Post by Bevo on Sept 15, 2017 5:34:00 GMT
Keeping what you earn is labeled as greed...spoken like a true socialist. The Sun Belt can begin calling themselves P6 today, or P5 or P1 or any other slang term that pleases them. The media and the people that run the post season and the DPI (ESPN) would have to start calling the SBC 'P6' . What I want is step by step instructions to the SBC commissioner on how to achieve real cartel status for his league . The first step would be to require all of the SBC teams to spend a minimum of $85 M a year on their football programs. Next step would be to have them all upgrade their stadiums.
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Post by Bevo on Sept 15, 2017 6:31:49 GMT
You referred to the P5 conferences in the previous sentence. Therefore, it was reasonable to assume that you were referring to conference alignments. You think it was "reasonable" to assume something that is "just plain nuts"? LOL Well, no... I was referring the DIVISION alignments. The NCAA sets the guidelines for schools to be in FCS or FBS. Apparently, the NCAA is OK with the huge disparity in resources.
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Post by Hero on Sept 15, 2017 13:50:39 GMT
Keeping what you earn is labeled as greed...spoken like a true socialist. The Sun Belt can begin calling themselves P6 today, or P5 or P1 or any other slang term that pleases them. The media and the people that run the post season and the DPI (ESPN) would have to start calling the SBC 'P6' . What I want is step by step instructions to the SBC commissioner on how to achieve real cartel status for his league . You want ME to tell you how to make the people on ESPN say what you want them to say. Laughing As for the "cartel" question they can claim it today. Like I said before, they can make up all the slang labels they want and claim them all this very minute. The possibilities are limitless.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Sept 15, 2017 14:29:18 GMT
You referred to the P5 conferences in the previous sentence. Therefore, it was reasonable to assume that you were referring to conference alignments. You think it was "reasonable" to assume something that is "just plain nuts"? LOL Well, no... I was referring the DIVISION alignments. The NCAA sets the guidelines for schools to be in FCS or FBS. Apparently, the NCAA is OK with the huge disparity in resources. There is a comparable disparity in resources in every NCAA division/subdivision. Yet, every other division and subdivision has a true national championship, and every team, regardless of resources, has an equal opportunity to compete for the NCAA national championship. And, no one is complaining. There is even considerable disparity in resources among P5 conferences schools. Wouldn't it be far more equitable if the elites were trimmed to 32, or even 16 schools?
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Post by bluehen on Sept 15, 2017 15:40:45 GMT
There is comparable disparity of resources in every team sport on planet Earth...pro or amateur. Heck, look at the small market vs huge market professional teams. But that disparity does not prevent the less privileged from having opportunities to compete for championships and talent. Good ol Bevo ( Hero too) will never comprehend the basic concept of equal opportunity in sports.
Coastal Carolina should NEVER, NEVER, EVER have been allowed to compete for and win the D1 Baseball national championship because it has a relatively modest athletic budget...right ? Butler should NEVER EVER have been allowed to compete for and play its way into the basketball Final Four because its not a brand name with a huge athletic budget..right ? I think we're wasting our time trying to explain the concept of equal opportunity in sports to these guys but it's understandable how they think coming from very financially elite Us of Texas and Alabama. Conversely our alma maters, Delaware and Marshall, have competed in and won genuine NCAA football championships....based on equal opportunity competition and all inclusiveness. If we were grads of mega budget win-at-all-costs factories and they were UD and Marshall grads, heck, they might be working hard to explain the concept of equal opportunity to us. Whew !!!
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Post by Hero on Sept 15, 2017 16:41:48 GMT
I understand socialism and political correctness and reject them both. I AM among the GREEDY who thinks I should keep what I earn and don't expect a free ride. I also understand my opinion is not popular these days.
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Post by Bevo on Sept 15, 2017 20:02:56 GMT
There is a comparable disparity in resources in every NCAA division/subdivision. ... There is even considerable disparity in resources among P5 conferences schools. Comparable, I guess... if you want to be generous with the word. The disparity is the worst in the FBS Division. Using the latest data available for each, I calculated the ratio of the HIGHEST Athletic Budget to the lowest in each group and found the following: FBS 15 (Texas/Ark-Little Rock) FCS 11 (James Madison/Miss Valley St) By comparison to other successful professional sports leagues, these disparity levels are pretty ridiculous. Here are a few: NFL 1.2 (Jax / Denver) MLB 3.8 (Dodgers/Brewers) NHL 1.4 (Toronto/Arizona) NBA 1.6 (Cleveland/Philly) If the FBS was actually split between P5 and G5, the numbers would be "comparable".. in the generous sense. For the "unofficial sub-divisions of P5 and G5, the numbers are: P5 2.4 (Texas/KState) G5 5.2 ( UCF /Ark-Little Rock) If the FBS was split into these two groups, it would be pretty easy to have playoffs for each that included all the Conference Champs, a couple of At-Large teams, and NOT consume more than 3 weeks of the season. Yet, every other division and subdivision has a true national championship, and every team, regardless of resources, has an equal opportunity to compete for the NCAA national championship. And, no one is complaining. Really? No one in FCS, Div 2 or Div 3 EVER complains? Wanna try an prove that? They all have a good reason to be in favor of a huge, all-inclusive playoff that takes up a third of the season: It's the only chance they have at doing something interesting enough to potentially draw an audience. Not a lot of data is available for individual schools in Div 2 and Div 3, but... the disparity seems to be slightly less. The NCAA does publish data showing the average budgets for the 1st through 4th quartiles. The ratio between 1st and 4th quartiles is 2.6 and 2.0, respectively. This disparity is still way too big for any sense of true fairness. But, they do have the luxury of being able to dedicate a large chunk of an unnoticed regular season to a large playoff format.
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Post by Bevo on Sept 15, 2017 20:21:42 GMT
There is comparable disparity of resources in every team sport on planet Earth...pro or amateur. Just not true Hen... not at the same levels.. Not even close. See my post above. Good ol Bevo ( Hero too) will never comprehend the basic concept of equal opportunity in sports. I understand equality, but I don't think you do. It doesn't exist in the FBS. Coastal Carolina should NEVER, NEVER, EVER have been allowed to compete for and win the D1 Baseball national championship because it has a relatively modest athletic budget...right ? Butler should NEVER EVER have been allowed to compete for and play its way into the basketball Final Four because its not a brand name with a huge athletic budget..right ? wrong. Baseball and Basketball are very different sports. You should understand that. For starters, the rosters and starters are far fewer than for football. When you only play 5, it's not that hard for a smaller school to get 1 or 2 super star players that, by themselves, can make the teams competitive. That's much harder to do in football. To add to that, there's nowhere near as much physical contact between the players in baseball/Bball as in football. The physical differences between the players in different divisions doesn't take as much of a toll over the course of a season. And, finally.. the BIGGEST difference of course: Baseball and BBall both can play multiple games in a week. That makes it quite easy to hold a large format playoff in only three weeks. Much harder to do that in football, especially in the top money divisions where: Teams risk losing MILLIONS of dollars by giving up regular season games. I admit, I truly don't understand why people like you and Herd have your mindset trapped in a little box where the ONLY WAY college football can be good is, if 125 teams duke it out in a winner-take-all crapshoot all-inclusive playoff. It's NOT the "only" way. I don't even think it's the fairest way. I'd LOVE to see a G5 playoff. It would be a TV draw. But, nope.... can't do that. Because, um.. why? Because Div 3 teams are able to hold a huge playoff? No thanks. I do understand why schools like Delaware don't worry about losing a few home games. Might even SAVE them some money.
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