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Post by tigercpa on May 20, 2018 12:42:54 GMT
There is something mentally wrong with these shooters. Notice how they all have the flat face effect. Incapable of showing any emotion through facial expression.
Guns don't MAKE people kill.
Notice how lately, the shooters are not committing suicide? Why?
Look at London - hardly any guns, but violent crimes rates are through the roof.
The last 2 school shooters were heavily bullied.
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Post by doc on May 20, 2018 19:39:29 GMT
I have never owned a gun and never will. I’ve lived 60 years without one, I don’t see any reason to start now.
I respect evertyone’s right to own a gun or guns. That’s an individual choice. I don’t see the need to own these assault weapons, I don’t see the need to be able to spray bullets all over the place. Maybe there is but I don’t see it.
I think Tiger hits it on the head - the kids that go to school to kill their classmates have reached a point that they feel it’s their last option - they’re mentally ill, have been bullied or have a sick desire to do what the other shooters have done. I don’t think the protests the kids have done recently have any impact because they’re pointed at the wrong people. If someone wants a gun, they’ll get it. What they need to start doing is treating everyone with the respect that they’d want to receive. Apparently this kid was infatuated with a girl and asked her out on many occasions to the point where she publicly told him she’s not interested. I’m not blaming this poor girl but that had to have played a role in him snapping.
It’s horrible. It’s sad. Many times the warning signs are there. Security is in place and yet this kid walked into school with weapons. Working at a university we have training and procedures in place should a shooting occur - young kids are emotionally and mentally vulnerable and I think that’s where the focus needs to be.
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Post by Bevo on May 20, 2018 23:25:08 GMT
Doc, this guy didn't have an "Assault" weapon... He had a shotgun and a revolver.... that's it.
From what I've heard, many more kids could have been killed if not for the presence of an armed guard. A guard who didn't run away, but confronted the shooter.. and, made him give up. Until we solve the mental health issue (and, I think that is the primary cause) the ONLY way to limit the damage is: To decrease the time it takes for a 'good person with a gun' getting to the scene. That means: More guards, Maybe even armed teachers... maybe Police stations AT schools.... whatever it takes.
This school was already "Hardened"... meaning, it's a modern school with limited points of entry. But still, no metal detectors, and a very limited # of guards. They had two. Not always on site at the same time. That's not enough.
Santa Fe is VERY close to my home town of Angleton. When I last worked in Texas, I drove by that town every day. It's a very small town, where... I assure you, everyone knows pretty much everyone. I worked with several people who lived in Santa Fe. This one really hits home.
These kids are sick. They're damn near all taking powerful psyche drugs. They DON'T know how to relate to other people, and they don't know how to handle rejection, or disappointment. They've grown up playing video games that are solely based on KILLING other people... I have played Call of Duty against kids that are 6-10 years old... they are KILLING machines....Why are we surprised that they have no respect for the lives of others?
Here's two changes I would make tomorrow:
1) Make it a FELONY to broadcast the name of a school shooter... either on TV, radio, or print. These sick kids should get ZERO fame. That is what they seek the most,
2) Punish their FAMILIES when they commit these hideous crimes. That's won't stop them all, might even make some of these sickos want to do it more... but, I think it will slow down the majority of them. MAYBE, they care about their own families. If not, MAYBE it will convince parents to get more help for their unstable kids.
This is a difficult problem, with many facets.... but, we have to get a grip on it somehow. I'm open to other ideas... even some that make it harder for kids to gain access to guns. But, we need to start thinking WAY OUTSIDE the political box that traps both sides.
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Post by doc on May 21, 2018 12:32:59 GMT
Doc, this guy didn't have an "Assault" weapon... He had a shotgun and a revolver.... that's it. 1) Make it a FELONY to broadcast the name of a school shooter... either on TV, radio, or print. These sick kids should get ZERO fame. That is what they seek the most, Yeah, I know this kid didn't use an assault rifle - I was just making a general statement about them overall. Reading my post back I can see how you would think I was talking about this recent incident. And I agree about naming the shooters - leave them unnamed. This is beyond gun laws - I truly think its all about the kids who have been cast aside and feeling hopeless getting their revenge. The pain and anger build up to the breaking point. and like you said, it's almost like they're playing a live video game.
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Post by tigercpa on May 21, 2018 15:57:12 GMT
The gun-free school zones act was introduced by Joe Biden in 1990. Well, that stupid shit didn’t work. Maybe we should try something realistic.
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Post by Bevo on May 21, 2018 21:47:06 GMT
Doc, this guy didn't have an "Assault" weapon... He had a shotgun and a revolver.... that's it. 1) Make it a FELONY to broadcast the name of a school shooter... either on TV, radio, or print. These sick kids should get ZERO fame. That is what they seek the most, Yeah, I know this kid didn't use an assault rifle - I was just making a general statement about them overall. Reading my post back I can see how you would think I was talking about this recent incident. And I agree about naming the shooters - leave them unnamed. This is beyond gun laws - I truly think its all about the kids who have been cast aside and feeling hopeless getting their revenge. The pain and anger build up to the breaking point. and like you said, it's almost like they're playing a live video game. I've never fired one, but all of my neighbors seem to love their AR-15s. They don't, however, just "spray bullits everywhere". You still have to point it and pull the trigger. There were times, when I was young and a girl had spurned me, that I thought the world deserved to be punished. Thankfully, shooting up my classmates never occurred to me. I had ready access to guns... They were everywhere.
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Post by tigercpa on May 22, 2018 0:41:07 GMT
Yeah, I know this kid didn't use an assault rifle - I was just making a general statement about them overall. Reading my post back I can see how you would think I was talking about this recent incident. And I agree about naming the shooters - leave them unnamed. This is beyond gun laws - I truly think its all about the kids who have been cast aside and feeling hopeless getting their revenge. The pain and anger build up to the breaking point. and like you said, it's almost like they're playing a live video game. I've never fired one, but all of my neighbors seem to love their AR-15s. They don't, however, just "spray bullits everywhere". You still have to point it and pull the trigger. There were times, when I was young and a girl had spurned me, that I thought the world deserved to be punished. Thankfully, shooting up my classmates never occurred to me. I had ready access to guns... They were everywhere. This is true, when I was in HS, guns were in the backs of trucks in the parking lot. Many guys went hunting before or after school, depending on the season.
No one ever shot up the school. Never even thought about it.
I love my AR-15 too. and my AR-10. I like to take both target shooting.
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Post by Bevo on May 22, 2018 20:52:39 GMT
Quotes from the Santa Fe kids are a BIT different from those in Florida....
No surprise that, kids growing up today in the same place I did, see the issue in a similar way.
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Post by bluehen on May 23, 2018 11:28:19 GMT
I, of course, agree with Doc's 'general' statement that our society doesn't need military style weapons and would add large capacity semi-auto hand guns. Didn't this kid use his dad's sawed off shotgun ? Sawed off shotguns are not for grouse hunting. Other countries don't have mass school shootings. Other countries don't have an NRA.
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Post by tigercpa on May 23, 2018 12:02:58 GMT
I, of course, agree with Doc's 'general' statement that our society doesn't need military style weapons and would add large capacity semi-auto hand guns. Didn't this kid use his dad's sawed off shotgun ? Sawed off shotguns are not for grouse hunting. Other countries don't have mass school shootings. Other countries don't have an NRA. 38 other countries have had mass school shootings...some with multiple mass shootings, like Canada and Germany and France. Just because our lazy media won’t report it, doesn’t mean it has not happened. Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Famous Supreme Court case on this... How many NRA members have ever shot up a school?
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Post by doc on May 23, 2018 13:19:09 GMT
Quotes from the Santa Fe kids are a BIT different from those in Florida.... No surprise that, kids growing up today in the same place I did, see the issue in a similar way. This is kind of what I was trying to say in my original post. I'm not saying all the time, but many times the shooter is someone who has been treated like crap, they snap and this is what happens. Maybe the kids should think about the way they're treating others and try to lift up some of these kids who feel like shooting their classmates is their final option.
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Post by bluehen on May 24, 2018 11:22:46 GMT
I, of course, agree with Doc's 'general' statement that our society doesn't need military style weapons and would add large capacity semi-auto hand guns. Didn't this kid use his dad's sawed off shotgun ? Sawed off shotguns are not for grouse hunting. Other countries don't have mass school shootings. Other countries don't have an NRA. 38 other countries have had mass school shootings...some with multiple mass shootings, like Canada and Germany and France. Just because our lazy media won’t report it, doesn’t mean it has not happened. Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Famous Supreme Court case on this... How many NRA members have ever shot up a school? NRA members haven't shot up anything. Its not about members. NRA ideology and political lobby power has indirectly provided the weaponry for the mass shootings which have been 57X greater in the US than all the other industrialized nations on Earth. It's all about selling guns/ammo for the firearms industry....just like the tobacco lobby wants to sell cigarettes. Cpa, I actually used to respect the old NRA of 50 years ago often depicted in imagery of a father/grandfather sitting by the cabin fireplace in a red plaid shirt, with a beautiful pointing dog laying nearby and showing a young boy how to clean a fine double barrel bird gun. Now when you check the NRA's 'gun of the week' it's often modeled by a guy in black tactical clothing with a 'weapon' designed specifically for killing humans and nothing else...large magazine , semi-automatic, rifles and hand guns....sold in the name of home defense....and boy does that stuff sell ! The NRA has evolved from useful to evil, imo.
Still waiting to sell you some of my guns.
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Post by Bevo on May 24, 2018 13:30:26 GMT
just like the tobacco lobby wants to sell cigarettes That is a patently ridiculous comparison. Using it blows up any credibility from your post. 1) No one can defend themselves or their property with a cigarette. 2) Cigarette possession and use is not protected, unconditionally, by constitutional amendment.
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Post by tigercpa on May 24, 2018 16:30:03 GMT
38 other countries have had mass school shootings...some with multiple mass shootings, like Canada and Germany and France. Just because our lazy media won’t report it, doesn’t mean it has not happened. Sawed off shotguns are illegal. Famous Supreme Court case on this... How many NRA members have ever shot up a school? NRA members haven't shot up anything. Its not about members. NRA ideology and political lobby power has indirectly provided the weaponry for the mass shootings which have been 57X greater in the US than all the other industrialized nations on Earth. It's all about selling guns/ammo for the firearms industry....just like the tobacco lobby wants to sell cigarettes. Cpa, I actually used to respect the old NRA of 50 years ago often depicted in imagery of a father/grandfather sitting by the cabin fireplace in a red plaid shirt, with a beautiful pointing dog laying nearby and showing a young boy how to clean a fine double barrel bird gun. Now when you check the NRA's 'gun of the week' it's often modeled by a guy in black tactical clothing with a 'weapon' designed specifically for killing humans and nothing else...large magazine , semi-automatic, rifles and hand guns....sold in the name of home defense....and boy does that stuff sell ! The NRA has evolved from useful to evil, imo.
Still waiting to sell you some of my guns.
Except that it is not.
The NRA as boogeyman is a tired, and untruthful meme.
The NRA has roughly 4 million members (out of over 300 million people, and nearly 90 million gun owners)) and is not even in the top 100 lobbying organizations who give money to politicians.
You greatly embellish their prowess beyond reality.
When you boil it down were are talking roughly 1,700 homicides by a firearm per year. In a country of over 300,000,000 people. That's infinitesimal.
The US ranks 189th in the world in murder per capita when you remove a few select zip codes around the country.
You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist on a relative basis.
As Bevo said, it's a multi-faceted problem, and continually bringing up the NRA does nothing for probable solutions.
The NRA already advocates for safe, responsible gun ownership.
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Post by Bevo on May 25, 2018 2:10:39 GMT
NRA? Meh.... I'm not a member. Can't say that I know ANYONE who is. Maybe CPA?
They are, the LEAST of the problems that concern me with regards to the school shooting problem.
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