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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 24, 2017 12:56:23 GMT
You can't get around the fact that the CFP system is rigged against non-P5 schools. With SOS being overemphasized and MOV being prohibited as a factor, it is impossible to evaluate teams as to how they perform relative to their schedules. A deserving non-P5 team doesn't even have a snowflake's chance in hell of being selected as a CFP challenger. So a team that beats up cupcakes to get to 13-0 is more deserving?
I think most reasonable people want SOS to be a factor, likewise MOV to be diminished. Separates the steak from the sizzle.
What if the team that beat up on 13 cupcakes is the best team in the country? Of course SOS should be a factor. But, MOV should not be diminished. The combination of SOS and MOV is the only way to project the relative strengths of teams. In all other NCAA football divisions, including FCS, undefeated teams, with few exceptions, have an opportunity to compete for the NCAA national championship. The exceptions are champions of conferences, such as the Ivy League, that do not permit teams to compete in the NCAA playoffs.
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Post by cjhawkeyes on Aug 24, 2017 15:07:34 GMT
Replace the committee with actual rules and G5 teams will become much more competitive and that is why the P5 will never agree to it.
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Post by doc on Aug 24, 2017 15:22:29 GMT
Michigan fan here... I really don't understand the love for PSU both in national preseason polls, which tend to put them in that #5-6 range, and various message boards. The PSU got throttled by Michigan last year 49-10, and it wasn't even that close. They were thoroughly dominated. They are also coached by Field Goal Franklin, the guy who elected to kick a field goal down 28-0 before the half in that game. Before Michigan they lost to Pitt. After Michigan, they struggled against a number of teams before lucking into a win against OSU and a Big Ten championship in a game OSU wins 19 times out of 20. Yeah, they played USC well in their bowl game, but still lost. I know last year is last year, but people seem to think they were some dominating team. The hype is unreal. And yes they return Barkley who is a phenomenal player, but reversion to the mean (and loss of top receiver) suggests that McSorley's arm punts don't connect as much this year. I predict PSU ends the season in the #20-25 range, which is about right. But nowhere near the CFP. Welcome aboard. We could use a good Badger to help keep all these Buckeyes in check. I agree with you. PSU lost some key players. I doubt they do as well this year. Slight correction - TTUN fans are Wolverines not Badgers but they have been known to 'badger' Ohio State fans from time to time - just not so much since 2001 !
BTW, I am so looking forward to Penn State coming to town at the end of October - if there's one team I want to see Ohio State 'unleash hell' on its them. I predict McSorely is going to 'mc-sore' following that game.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 24, 2017 17:09:53 GMT
Replace the committee with actual rules and G5 teams will become much more competitive and that is why the P5 will never agree to it. It all depends upon what the "rules" are. You might recall that the BCS forced Jeff Sagarin and other computer services to not include SOS in their ratings. That automatically made it impossible for any G5 team to have an opportunity to be selected. It is super simple to compel computer ratings to have a built-in bias that would exclude any hope for non-P5 teams. As long as the CFP is controlled by the P5 conferences, it will not be fair and open to non-P5 schools. But, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is admitted and there is no pretense that the CFP is a legitimate national championship playoff.
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Post by cjhawkeyes on Aug 24, 2017 17:16:56 GMT
Replace the committee with actual rules and G5 teams will become much more competitive and that is why the P5 will never agree to it. It all depends upon what the "rules" are. You might recall that the BCS forced Jeff Sagarin and other computer services to not include SOS in their ratings. That automatically made it impossible for any G5 team to have an opportunity to be selected. It is super simple to compel computer ratings to have a built-in bias that would exclude any hope for non-P5 teams. As long as the CFP is controlled by the P5 conferences, it will not be fair and open to non-P5 schools. But, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is admitted and there is no pretense that the CFP is a legitimate national championship playoff. My own idea does not consider MOV and is much more friendly to non-power schools over the years. Therefore. MOV is not needed to give G5 teams a chance although you could still favor it being considered. That said, I think it would be impossible to adopt a objective system with a clearly built in bias. Rules that clearly favor teams based on their identity would be self-evident.
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 24, 2017 19:06:25 GMT
Replace the committee with actual rules and G5 teams will become much more competitive and that is why the P5 will never agree to it. It all depends upon what the "rules" are. You might recall that the BCS forced Jeff Sagarin and other computer services to not include SOS in their ratings. That automatically made it impossible for any G5 team to have an opportunity to be selected. It is super simple to compel computer ratings to have a built-in bias that would exclude any hope for non-P5 teams. As long as the CFP is controlled by the P5 conferences, it will not be fair and open to non-P5 schools. But, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is admitted and there is no pretense that the CFP is a legitimate national championship playoff. Wouldn't removal of SOS actually help G5 schools?
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 24, 2017 19:12:11 GMT
cj: "That said, I think it would be impossible to adopt a objective system with a clearly built in bias. Rules that clearly favor teams based on their identity would be self-evident."
FHF: Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next?
It is simple to develop an 'objective system' that is totally biased. In fact, that is exactly what the BCS required of the various computer ratings services. The P5 conferences don't care a whit if the obvious bias is exposed.
1984 BYU would not have been in the running if the BCS or CFP had existed at the time.
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Post by Hero on Aug 25, 2017 0:06:19 GMT
So a team outside the P5 can win or they can't...Is that about right? Can you translate that into English, please? Tell me your mother language and maybe we can work with that.
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 25, 2017 0:23:50 GMT
I specified the language.
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Post by Hero on Aug 25, 2017 0:52:34 GMT
I specified the language. No seriously, because I have been writing in English and you are having trouble...again.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 25, 2017 1:33:59 GMT
Welcome aboard. We could use a good Badger to help keep all these Buckeyes in check. I agree with you. PSU lost some key players. I doubt they do as well this year. Slight correction - TTUN fans are Wolverines not Badgers but they have been known to 'badger' Ohio State fans from time to time - just not so much since 2001 !
BTW, I am so looking forward to Penn State coming to town at the end of October - if there's one team I want to see Ohio State 'unleash hell' on its them. I predict McSorely is going to 'mc-sore' following that game.
Ugh. Yes. Wolverines. I knew that. Just a brain fart. still a good addition
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 25, 2017 2:05:08 GMT
I specified the language. No seriously, because I have been writing in English and you are having trouble...again. Lol. I will admit that you have a better command of the English language than does Donald Trump. My apologies if you mistook that as a personal attack...
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Post by Hero on Aug 25, 2017 2:11:09 GMT
No seriously, because I have been writing in English and you are having trouble...again. Lol. I will admit that you have a better command of the English language than does Donald Trump. Is that a compliment? Laughing
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Post by FLORIDA HERD FAN on Aug 25, 2017 2:52:18 GMT
Lol. I will admit that you have a better command of the English language than does Donald Trump. Is that a compliment? Laughing It puts you in the top 98%...
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Post by cjhawkeyes on Aug 25, 2017 6:38:52 GMT
cj: "That said, I think it would be impossible to adopt a objective system with a clearly built in bias. Rules that clearly favor teams based on their identity would be self-evident." FHF: Do you realize that you just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next? It is simple to develop an 'objective system' that is totally biased. In fact, that is exactly what the BCS required of the various computer ratings services. The P5 conferences don't care a whit if the obvious bias is exposed. 1984 BYU would not have been in the running if the BCS or CFP had existed at the time. Yes, it is easy to create one but if, for example, I suggested mine with the added feature that P5 teams get a 10 point head start, they would never get away with implementing it. However, subjectivity basically always allows them to keep moving the goalposts for G5 and claim they need to do more without ever defining "more" or making "more" attainable.
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