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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 28, 2022 12:45:03 GMT
This is simply not true. You are open that you do not have a relationship with Jesus and thus you do not have His Spirit nor do you know His heart. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.I’m waiting for the passage that says Jesus would deny medical care to a woman who needs an abortion for a non-viable baby. You can hide behind saying you know Jesus, but there are many examples throughout history of people using the Bible and Jesus to justify evil. This is just another example. I'm not hiding behind anything. I've answered all of you and Hen's questions respectfully and honestly. There is no mention in The Bible from Jesus regarding the act of abortion because abortion did not exist back then. There are however many passages about life in the womb, how God values children, against murder, and also plenty of cases of what happened to those who stepped out in faith to let their baby live despite not so good circumstances. I personally know a family who did just that and seen the results. I wonder what Mary (and her eventual husband Joseph) had to endure from others when they found out that Mary was pregnant. She was not married. She claimed to be a virgin. Nobody would have blamed Joseph for leaving her. I'm sure if abortion was a thing back then, many would have advised her to go that route. The faith displayed by Mary (and Joseph who still took her as his wife) is indeed a mystery to most of the world. I wonder why God would have Jesus born under these circumstances. The Bible, Jesus himself, and His Spirit are what guide true followers of Christ to know what is right and what is wrong as we navigate this world. You keep bringing up an extreme example that is certainly not the norm when it comes to all of the abortions that happen every year. That's fine, but I know you also understand that most abortions are not in this category. I will always vote to limit these whenever given the opportunity. And there is nothing evil about that.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 28, 2022 14:19:39 GMT
So GG, you're not familiar with the snake handlers of remote sections of Appalachia ? They are generally Pentecostal Holiness types that pick up Rattlesnakes and Copperheads and speak in gibberish 'Tongues' as instructed by God in the Bible. They are generally very poorly educated and have MAGA and Trump signs around their trashed up Trailer yards. It's the thing to do....right from the Bible....Book Of Mark :
"and these signs will accompany those who believe in my name. They will drive out demons. They will speak in tongues. They will pick up snakes with their hands and when they drink deadly poison it will not harm them at all"
C'mon GG get with it and find some poisonous snakes to handle to affirm your faith......NO NO...just kidding !
Also, thanks for assuring me that God loves me. I think I'd prefer that he loved the little children that he decided to drown in Kentucky recently plus 37 other people ( some could have even been snake handlers )...and the ones he decided to kill in the tornados in Western Ky a couple of years ago.....and all the death, suffering, misery destruction and chaos he felt the need to inflict on mankind over time....via diseases, fires, earthquakes, floods, famines etc.etc.
.but his love works in mysterious ways, right ? a " depth of love" as you say.
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Post by aufan on Aug 28, 2022 15:03:10 GMT
I’m waiting for the passage that says Jesus would deny medical care to a woman who needs an abortion for a non-viable baby. You can hide behind saying you know Jesus, but there are many examples throughout history of people using the Bible and Jesus to justify evil. This is just another example. I'm not hiding behind anything. I've answered all of you and Hen's questions respectfully and honestly. There is no mention in The Bible from Jesus regarding the act of abortion because abortion did not exist back then. There are however many passages about life in the womb, how God values children, against murder, and also plenty of cases of what happened to those who stepped out in faith to let their baby live despite not so good circumstances. I personally know a family who did just that and seen the results. I wonder what Mary (and her eventual husband Joseph) had to endure from others when they found out that Mary was pregnant. She was not married. She claimed to be a virgin. Nobody would have blamed Joseph for leaving her. I'm sure if abortion was a thing back then, many would have advised her to go that route. The faith displayed by Mary (and Joseph who still took her as his wife) is indeed a mystery to most of the world. I wonder why God would have Jesus born under these circumstances. The Bible, Jesus himself, and His Spirit are what guide true followers of Christ to know what is right and what is wrong as we navigate this world. You keep bringing up an extreme example that is certainly not the norm when it comes to all of the abortions that happen every year. That's fine, but I know you also understand that most abortions are not in this category. I will always vote to limit these whenever given the opportunity. And there is nothing evil about that. Abortion was around long before Jesus, documented in ancient Egypt. The Bible even mentions women should drink the dirty water when they were adulterous. You don’t think any abortion is justified? All abortion should be illegal?
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Post by bluehen on Aug 28, 2022 16:12:26 GMT
You ARE offensive, intentionally so. Which also makes you caustic and destructive to any sense of cohesion on this board. Supporting the denial of health care to people because of an ancient fairy tale is offensive. It is evil. I’m just stating the obvious. My words are only offensive if your belief system can’t stand up to criticism. But we already know that to be the case, don’t we?
Hey Aufan, I don't think you are "caustic" and "destructive" to this board. Regarding this discussion of theology ,if some deity spirit in the sky gave you a brain to think with than thinking about things is a good thing...a logical thing.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 28, 2022 18:48:52 GMT
So GG, you're not familiar with the snake handlers of remote sections of Appalachia ? They are generally Pentecostal Holiness types that pick up Rattlesnakes and Copperheads and speak in gibberish 'Tongues' as instructed by God in the Bible. They are generally very poorly educated and have MAGA and Trump signs around their trashed up Trailer yards. It's the thing to do....right from the Bible....Book Of Mark : "and these signs will accompany those who believe in my name. They will drive out demons. They will speak in tongues. They will pick up snakes with their hands and when they drink deadly poison it will not harm them at all" C'mon GG get with it and find some poisonous snakes to handle to affirm your faith......NO NO...just kidding ! Also, thanks for assuring me that God loves me. I think I'd prefer that he loved the little children that he decided to drown in Kentucky recently plus 37 other people ( some could have even been snake handlers )...and the ones he decided to kill in the tornados in Western Ky a couple of years ago.....and all the death, suffering, misery destruction and chaos he felt the need to inflict on mankind over time....via diseases, fires, earthquakes, floods, famines etc.etc. .but his love works in mysterious ways, right ? a " depth of love" as you say. Anyone handling snakes or speaking in tongues in a church service is not being led by the Spirit of Christ and is very much misunderstanding the context of that passage and more. Yes I am aware and it is sad. They have been misled. Jesus is using metaphors to illustrate God's divine protection from evil (Satan who first appeared to man as a serpent) as they carry out His mission. He is not telling them to put God to the test by doing stupid things to gain attention from others at how holy they are. This is about the spiritual eternal battles, not the temporary physical. This is why it is important to have a personal relationship with Christ and listen to His Spirit and let it guide you. Otherwise it is easy to be deceived and not know what truth is. And yes, God is love and he loves everyone who has died. Our time on this earth is nothing compared to eternity. He sees the big picture and wants us to put our faith and trust in Him. Once I did that, it's hard to explain in human terms what happened. My eyes were opened, my heart was softened, and the peace and joy felt...it is more than I am able to describe. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 28, 2022 19:05:50 GMT
Thanks GG. Good explanation of the trump worshiping snake handling idiots of backwoods Appalachia. Therefore 100% of the Bible is not to be interpreted 100% literally ?... as there are metaphors and symbolism throughout. That was my point about the old testament folk tales. Is that fair ?
I'm still skeptical about 'God so loves the world'....a world he periodically chooses to destroy including its people. With the actual knowledge at hand I blame mother nature for the horrible things that have happened to man, not a spirit up in the sky somewhere.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 28, 2022 19:39:29 GMT
Thanks GG. Good explanation of the trump worshiping snake handling idiots of backwoods Appalachia. Therefore 100% of the Bible is not to be interpreted 100% literally ?... as there are metaphors and symbolism throughout. That was my point about the old testament folk tales. Is that fair ? I'm still skeptical about 'God so loves the world'....a world he periodically chooses to destroy including its people. With the actual knowledge at hand I blame mother nature for the horrible things that have happened to man, not a spirit up in the sky somewhere. It is very clear when Jesus was speaking in parables or using metaphors. The Spirit of Christ in us gives us discernment and illuminates scripture. In all of the other examples you gave prior, there is no evidence that it was not literal. The Red Sea did part for the Jews to exit Egypt. God did create the world and man. I promise He does love you. Have you ever honestly in your life tried to seek Him? Take some time and go into a room all by yourself. Shut the door. Close your eyes and bow your head and sincerely ask Him if he is real and if He can hear you...with a humble and sincere heart that is willing to admit that you may have been wrong all of these years and that God might actually be real...call out to Him in faith...then listen in faith and see how He responds.
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Post by GatorGrad on Aug 28, 2022 19:40:34 GMT
I'm not hiding behind anything. I've answered all of you and Hen's questions respectfully and honestly. There is no mention in The Bible from Jesus regarding the act of abortion because abortion did not exist back then. There are however many passages about life in the womb, how God values children, against murder, and also plenty of cases of what happened to those who stepped out in faith to let their baby live despite not so good circumstances. I personally know a family who did just that and seen the results. I wonder what Mary (and her eventual husband Joseph) had to endure from others when they found out that Mary was pregnant. She was not married. She claimed to be a virgin. Nobody would have blamed Joseph for leaving her. I'm sure if abortion was a thing back then, many would have advised her to go that route. The faith displayed by Mary (and Joseph who still took her as his wife) is indeed a mystery to most of the world. I wonder why God would have Jesus born under these circumstances. The Bible, Jesus himself, and His Spirit are what guide true followers of Christ to know what is right and what is wrong as we navigate this world. You keep bringing up an extreme example that is certainly not the norm when it comes to all of the abortions that happen every year. That's fine, but I know you also understand that most abortions are not in this category. I will always vote to limit these whenever given the opportunity. And there is nothing evil about that. Abortion was around long before Jesus, documented in ancient Egypt. The Bible even mentions women should drink the dirty water when they were adulterous. You don’t think any abortion is justified? All abortion should be illegal? In God's eyes no, there is no scenario where Jesus would advise or support anyone to get an abortion. He would ask them to put their full faith in Him, not murder the baby, and trust Him fully with the result. In every single case in the Bible where someone trusted God and did what God asked them to do, things turned out well. I have seen this first hand in my own life as well. Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.As far as the legality of abortion, voting for a politician who appoints pro-life judges who ultimately overturned Roe v Wade is not going to make abortion completely illegal. It only left things up to the states and there are plenty of states in our country that will still allow abortion. You may have to jump through a few extra hoops, but that to me is a good thing. Most importantly, the goal is reducing the overall "convenience" abortions of which there are hundreds of thousands performed in our country each year. And especially the ones that occur at a later term. Perhaps it will also lead individuals to be a little more responsible in having premarital unprotected sex...which would also be a good overall thing for society IMO. So all in all, whether I want to look at it from a spiritual perspective or not, it is an easy choice for me to vote for pro-life politicians as the lesser of two evils...which I believe was the original reason for me even entering this thread. But for now I will exit as I know you all probably need to have the last word...it is all yours. 100 years from now when everyone on this message board is gone from this earth, I truly do hope that I can meet you all in Heaven and give you a big hug. Peace be with you.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 28, 2022 20:50:06 GMT
GG exits far more gracefully than I do.
Peace be with you B.
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Post by bluehen on Aug 28, 2022 23:20:28 GMT
The whole Exodus story is full of supernatural 'holes'....passed on by the folk process. After negotiating the Red Sea the Hebrews wandered around the desert of, which is now, Saudi Arabia for a couple decades before settling on the West bank of the Mediterranean sea. For the size of this contingent I've read speculation from 6,000 to 6 million. Forget 6 million ( the entire population of Egypt wasn't even close to that ). There is no archeological evidence that this event occurred or that Moses was a real person. There would be evidence of massive camps, otherwise. Even for 20,000 people wandering around in desert conditions it would take 11,000 gallons of water and 1500 tons of food per day to sustain them. It just wasn't there. If there was any kind of mass migration westward from Egypt this is likely what happened and far more accurate and plausible than the Bible : This mass of people crossed a wide shallow lake called Lake Reed ( sometimes called the Reed sea) at a site where the Suez canal is today. It was a brackish , very swampy body of water and with the combination of very severe winds and fluctuating tides the depth of Reed lake would fluctuate between 2 and 4 feet deep......very wade-able. If a bunch of horse drawn chariots attempted to cross it their weight would probably result in getting stuck in the soft lake bed. When the King James version of the Bible was written 'Reed Sea' was mistakenly called 'Red Sea'. Nobody waved a stick and the Sea parted. Also if the Mt Sinai story really happened the location of the Mountain would surely have been identified by now and would be a Christian shrine and probably one of the greatest tourist attractions on Earth. The Garden of Eden and Noah's boat yard would also be amazing massive tourist attractions if known and verified.
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Post by aufan on Aug 28, 2022 23:31:23 GMT
Abortion was around long before Jesus, documented in ancient Egypt. The Bible even mentions women should drink the dirty water when they were adulterous. You don’t think any abortion is justified? All abortion should be illegal? In God's eyes no, there is no scenario where Jesus would advise or support anyone to get an abortion. He would ask them to put their full faith in Him, not murder the baby, and trust Him fully with the result. In every single case in the Bible where someone trusted God and did what God asked them to do, things turned out well. I have seen this first hand in my own life as well. Four kids being swept away in a flash flood was a situation that considered as ‘turned out well,’ since they got to go to heaven. A baby being born to immediately die a painful death because they were not viable is also a situation that ‘turned out well.’ Everything by definition turns out well. This can be used to justify anything and everything. You didn’t answer the question and then bowed out. The opinion that all abortion should be illegal is indefensible. If that is your opinion, I understand why you aren’t trying to defend it.
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Post by Bevo on Aug 28, 2022 23:39:11 GMT
I think I’ll bow out with him.
Life is too short for this kind of caustic nonsense.
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Post by aufan on Aug 29, 2022 0:03:39 GMT
Supporting the denial of health care to people because of an ancient fairy tale is offensive. It is evil. I’m just stating the obvious. My words are only offensive if your belief system can’t stand up to criticism. But we already know that to be the case, don’t we?
Hey Aufan, I don't think you are "caustic" and "destructive" to this board. Regarding this discussion of theology ,if some deity spirit in the sky gave you a brain to think with than thinking about things is a good thing...a logical thing.
I mean he is correct. Cohesion of this board was based on agreeing that the election was stolen. That Trump should be president. That the insurrection was a justified peaceful protest. That the FBI is framing Trump. That a ten year old being denied an abortion is a hoax. That literally everything that makes them question their world view is a liberal hoax. I don’t mind disrupting this cohesion. I think it can lend itself to good discussion. I welcome when my opinions are challenged, but some people can’t handle it when theirs are. I think they have a name for those type of people, what do they call them? Oh yeah, snowflakes.
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Post by tigercpa on Aug 29, 2022 13:45:56 GMT
Thanks GG. Good explanation of the trump worshiping snake handling idiots of backwoods Appalachia. Therefore 100% of the Bible is not to be interpreted 100% literally ?... as there are metaphors and symbolism throughout. That was my point about the old testament folk tales. Is that fair ? I'm still skeptical about 'God so loves the world'....a world he periodically chooses to destroy including its people. With the actual knowledge at hand I blame mother nature for the horrible things that have happened to man, not a spirit up in the sky somewhere. Hero, you can stop wondering now. There you go.
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Post by SCFan on Aug 29, 2022 14:44:14 GMT
So what should be the punishment for Trump willfully having confidential documents to which he was not legally entitled to have? Keep in mind that he denied having such documents despite multiple retrieval attempts and requests.
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